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What happens if Penalty Services don’t make an appeal decision within 21 days?

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DeviousScissor

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I was issued a penalty fare earlier this month, and thanks to this forum, I appealed on the basis that the standard wording at the station does not comply with the regulations.

While I’m confident that the appeal will succeed, it’s been 20 days since it was lodged and Penalty Services have yet to make a decision. The regulations say
Where an Appeal Panel receives an appeal under regulation 16 or 17, it must decide whether
to allow or not allow the appeal before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the appeal is received.
Click to expand...

Does that mean that if a decision isn’t made by Sunday, the appeal automatically succeeds? I can’t find anything further in the regulations.
 
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RailUK Forums

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tspaul26

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DeviousScissor said:
Does that mean that if a decision isn’t made by Sunday, the appeal automatically succeeds?
Click to expand...
No. There are certain default consequences in terms of liability to pay, but these vary depending on whether the penalty fare was issued in England or Wales.

See generally regulations 16(11) and (11A), 17(8) and (8A) and 18(8) and (8A).
 
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skyhigh

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DeviousScissor said:
I was issued a penalty fare earlier this month, and thanks to this forum, I appealed on the basis that the standard wording at the station does not comply with the regulations.

While I’m confident that the appeal will succeed...
Click to expand...
I don't think we've ever seen a Penalty Fare appeal succeed for the stated reason that the wording on the signage was incorrect. Did you include any other grounds in your appeal? Is this the first appeal or a subsequent one?
 
D

DeviousScissor

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tspaul26 said:
No. There are certain default consequences in terms of liability to pay, but these vary depending on whether the penalty fare was issued in England or Wales.

See generally regulations 16(11) and (11A), 17(8) and (8A) and 18(8) and (8A).
Click to expand...
Thanks for expanding. 16(11) indicates that the penalty fare is void in this case, no?
Where the relevant Appeal Panel—
(a) notifies the operator that an appeal has been allowed; or
(b) fails to adhere to the time period specified in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2,
the appellant is not liable to pay the penalty fare in question.
Click to expand...
 
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tspaul26

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DeviousScissor said:
Thanks for expanding. 16(11) indicates that the penalty fare is void in this case, no?
Click to expand...
Regulation 16(11) only applies if the penalty fare was issued in Wales.

And it does not “void” the penalty fare in any event: it removes the recipient’s legal liability to pay.
 
D

DeviousScissor

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tspaul26 said:
Regulation 16(11) only applies if the penalty fare was issued in Wales.

And it does not “void” the penalty fare in any event: it removes the recipient’s legal liability to pay.
Click to expand...
Where do the regs indicate that 16(11) only applies to Wales?
 
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tspaul26

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DeviousScissor said:
Yes and (11A) refers to Regulations 9(1A) and (4A).

9(1A) starts with “In respect of England”.
Click to expand...
That is the point: regulation 16(11) applies to penalty fares issued in Wales and regulation 16(11A) to England.

I’m not entirely sure what your difficulty is here?
 
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Deafdoggie

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skyhigh said:
I don't think we've ever seen a Penalty Fare appeal succeed for the stated reason that the wording on the signage was incorrect.
Click to expand...
This is probably why it's taken more than 21 days! They normal uphold a more spurious reason instead.
 
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