Why are the ticket barriers for wheelchairs/prams slower than the regular ones

For example when someone passes if I don’t tap quick the light will go red for some seconds and then back to orange.

Silent said:

For example when someone passes if I don’t tap quick the light will go red for some seconds and then back to orange.

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Some of those are usable in two directions, and alternate their access accordingly. The light goes red when the barrier is in use for the opposite direction.

Silent said:

For example when someone passes if I don’t tap quick the light will go red for some seconds and then back to orange.

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They are often bi-directional and set themselves back up to accept passengers from either direction.

Oh that makes sense? At a newer station entrance that has two plus wheelchair accessible barriers I would assume they are quicker. I notice they are quicker at Wembley Park hence I actually use it often although still not as quick as regular ticket barriers.

If you look closely at the light on the card reader and the little screen, you may actually be able to see it flipping from one direction to the other every few seconds in real time.

Alternatively they're regularly abused by people shoving through them, so it could be the mechanism was just damaged, but it sounds more like it's because it's set in two way mode. Where there are multiple wide gates nearby they often will be set in one direction only as is typical at the others.

A uni-directional WAG is the same speed as any other gate: the main thing that slows them down is customers waiting for the gates to close, or to read their balance, before entering. Once you get the 'beep' and green light you can go, and once that happens the next person can follow.

The key difference with bi-directional WAGs is that they generally operate as 'First Come, First Served', but the way this is implemented is that the Oyster reader/mag stripe slot will flip-flop between each side, pausing for a few seconds to allow someone to present their ticket/card. This process begins as soon as the gates start closing: if you are efficient in your taps you can easily get through without it returning to this mode and remaining in the last used direction until everyone is through.

I am loathe to say this but 'slow' gates are, 9/10, customer error. In this instance they are behaving as designed.

WAG = Wide Aisle Gate

bluegoblin7 said:

A uni-directional WAG is the same speed as any other gate: the main thing that slows them down is customers waiting for the gates to close, or to read their balance, before entering. Once you get the 'beep' and green light you can go, and once that happens the next person can follow.

The key difference with bi-directional WAGs is that they generally operate as 'First Come, First Served', but the way this is implemented is that the Oyster reader/mag stripe slot will flip-flop between each side, pausing for a few seconds to allow someone to present their ticket/card. This process begins as soon as the gates start closing: if you are efficient in your taps you can easily get through without it returning to this mode and remaining in the last used direction until everyone is through.

I am loathe to say this but 'slow' gates are, 9/10, customer error. In this instance they are behaving as designed.

WAG = Wide Aisle Gate

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Yeah I noticed this when I taped fast at Euston yesterday.

But is the uni directional setting because of limitation??? If it was a new gate technology would they be able to make the barriers uni directional without having to switch sides every few seconds? Or is it something else that makes switching sides more practical?

Silent said:

Or is it something else that makes switching sides more practical?

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It's the most simple answer to the question of what should happen if a card/ticket comes from each side at the exact same time.

Silent said:

Yeah I noticed this when I taped fast at Euston yesterday.

But is the uni directional setting because of limitation??? If it was a new gate technology would they be able to make the barriers uni directional without having to switch sides every few seconds? Or is it something else that makes switching sides more practical?

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A limitation of the fact that by their nature ticket barriers can only operate in one direction at at time?

MCR247 said:

A limitation of the fact that by their nature ticket barriers can only operate in one direction at at time?

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I was thinking maybe a ticket barrier with the latest technology would be able to sync between both directions more faster than every few seconds and be able to sync to one side, for a bit longer, when a person taps their card. Can’t computers process stuff like this much faster than humans.

The hardware isn't the limiting factor: humans are. You could happily have both sides live at once, or reduce the time waiting on one side, but what then happens when people try and tap at the same time? Or what about those who do need a little more time to present their card - one of the main reasons for the WAGs is to assist passengers with mobility impairments.

Silent said:

I was thinking maybe a ticket barrier with the latest technology would be able to sync between both directions more faster than every few seconds and be able to sync to one side, for a bit longer, when a person taps their card. Can’t computers process stuff like this much faster than humans.

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Wouldn’t that just mean that you give users less time to tap their card/insert their tickets than currently?

For it to be able to switch directions every few seconds, logically as soon as one end goes off, the other end needs to go live at the same time. So if I’ve waited a few seconds for my side to become live and I tap on straight away, what happens when it flips back early because someone on the other side tapped at the very last second. Now we’ve both tapped at the same time, which way do the barriers open? How does it ensure both people have got through? Both taps were ‘registered’ so if one person doesn’t get through then tapping it again isn’t going to work.

This is even ignoring the fact that the barriers also need to accept paper tickets, and the slots close/don’t accept tickets when the relavent side isn’t live. Does the slot slam shut and cut my travel card in half because someone forced it to ‘flip back’ at the last second?

Personally, I think their design works well because the speed at which they switch means you’re probably not going to have to wait very long for it to change, and also because the machine does tell you what it’s doing quite effectively as the green arrow/red cross tells you whether your side is live or not. When you consider how many times per day, week, month, year the barriers sit there doing it incessantly I think it’s impressive they work as well as they do.

bluegoblin7 said:

The hardware isn't the limiting factor: humans are. You could happily have both sides live at once, or reduce the time waiting on one side, but what then happens when people try and tap at the same time? Or what about those who do need a little more time to present their card - one of the main reasons for the WAGs is to assist passengers with mobility impairments.

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Yeah I suppose it works well as it is and works the way it does because of the current transport system. By this I just mean it works the way it does because most ticket barrier lines only have one Wheelchair accessible gate, although I suppose too many Wheelchair accessible gates might make it even easier for fare dodgers. The future of ticketing is probably to make fare dodging harder but I imagine it might be invasive as it might mean that the phone tracks when we use a station, like Amazon Fresh, rather than us tapping in and out.

I like that the Wide Aisle Gates are slower because if you are travelling with luggage, a pram, a wheelchair etc it means less chance of the gate closing on you while you are walking through.

I had one the old Westinghouse gates at Waterloo close while I was still walking through it, and it was very forceful (and quite painful!). I'm relatively young and fit, I'd hate to think what it would have done to someone more frail.

bluegoblin7 said:

The key difference with bi-directional Wide Aisle Gates is that they generally operate as 'First Come, First Served', but the way this is implemented is that the Oyster reader/mag stripe slot will flip-flop between each side, pausing for a few seconds to allow someone to present their ticket/card. This process begins as soon as the gates start closing: if you are efficient in your taps you can easily get through without it returning to this mode and remaining in the last used direction until everyone is through.

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This is interesting to me as Cubic wide-aisle gates don't operate the same way (I don't know who makes the LU ones, but I assume they're different) from what I've seen. The "First Come, First Served" option just enables a green arrow on both sides and opens for whoever actually scans first. Every competant gate operator I've met or worked with has always manually changed between entry/exit as they spot cyclists, families, elderly people, or people with visible disabilities. Doing it manually prevents people from pushing through as often (and prevents the proceeding arguments). Of course, it's not possible in stations where the SCU (Station Control Unit, thanks @Mldaureol!) is off to the side (Norwich is a great example of terrible SCU placement), and it's not possible at stations without gateline staff.

Recessio said:

I like that the Wide Aisle Gates are slower because if you are travelling with luggage, a pram, a wheelchair etc it means less chance of the gate closing on you while you are walking through.

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They also have more sensors across them (dark glass on one side, white retroreflectors on the other side) near the bottom which will keep the gate open if obstructed. Very helpful for wheeling luggage or other heavy things across. If more time is needed, the topmost sensors can be covered manually to hold the gate open, though I wouldn't suggest doing this as it looks very suspicious!

Recessio said:

I had one the old Westinghouse gates at Waterloo close while I was still walking through it, and it was very forceful (and quite painful!). I'm relatively young and fit, I'd hate to think what it would have done to someone more frail.

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I've never personally been shut in one, but I have witnessed an elderly woman have a Cubic gate shut in front of her, almost trapping her arm. I doubt the newer gates are strong enough to do any damage (and do ease up a bit when blocked), but the biggest issue is the shock of it. The elderly woman could've easily fallen or had some kind of attack due to it, but she was thankfully okay after sitting down for a few minutes. Definitely the type of person I would've guided towards the wider gates as she was quite slow on her feet... better to risk offending someone a little than risk an injury or worse! Thankfully it wasn't my responsibility (or fault) that day.

SCU - Station control unit.

saismee said:

This is interesting to me as Cubic wide-aisle gates don't operate the same way (I don't know who makes the LU ones, but I assume they're different) from what I've seen. The "First Come, First Served" option just enables a green arrow on both sides and opens for whoever actually scans first. Every competant gate operator I've met or worked with has always manually changed between entry/exit as they spot cyclists, families, elderly people, or people with visible disabilities. Doing it manually prevents people from pushing through as often (and prevents the proceeding arguments). Of course, it's not possible in stations where the SCU (I don't know what it actually stands for, but it's the gate controller) is off to the side (Norwich is a great example of terrible SCU placement), and it's not possible at stations without gateline staff.

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LUL WAGs are Cubic - they do operate the same way. The POD will show a green arrow on both sides but the tri-reader will flip-flop - take a look at the red/yellow/green light. If the tri-reader has flipped to the other side you’ll need to hold your card for a few seconds until it comes back, as described.

LUL practice is to leave gates in FCFS, largely because most stations that only have one will be single staffed, and that member of staff may not be on the gateline or by the SCU. It is definitely better for them to be managed pro-actively where this is possible though, although I wouldn’t necessarily say - at least as far as LUL is concerned - that someone not doing this isn’t competent. And certainly the reality on LU - as demonstrated at stations with multiple WAGs set in one direction - is that this has no impact on whether the gates are pushed through. I can think of plenty of locations where the exit gate will always be pushed through to enter, because it’s nearer.

POD = Passenger Oriented Display
SCU = Station Control Unit

bluegoblin7 said:

LUL WAGs are Cubic - they do operate the same way. The POD will show a green arrow on both sides but the tri-reader will flip-flop - take a look at the red/yellow/green light. If the tri-reader has flipped to the other side you’ll need to hold your card for a few seconds until it comes back, as described.

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I tend to avoid the wide-aisle gates where possible (at busy times, usually at stations with only one) as I know the struggle that gateline staff experience when a swarm of perfectly able-bodied people rush to the wide-aisle gate when the standard gates are perfectly fine for them. It's awful watching a dozen people walk up and step too close, blocking the gate from closing and continuing through while someone who actually needs to use it is waiting on the other side. I don't have much experience actually using the readers (and they're rarely in FCFS in my experience).

At GA hybrid stations with barriers (think Bury St Edmunds), the member of staff opens gates while performing other duties, rather than leaving them closed and risking trapping a person inside/outside the station. They're always at the gates when trains are arriving, though. Because of this, FCFS operation still isn't used as the gate is either manually controlled or open at all times. I've seen the same happen at mainline stations when the sole gate operator goes on break. The barriers likely need to be shut in contactless/oyster zones though, as otherwise people may forget to tap in/out and get a max fare (or just dodge).

EDIT (forgot to mention before posting): I didn't mean pushing as forcing the barriers, I just meant leading too closely behind another person and pushing in a crowd.

FCFS = First Come, First Served

bluegoblin7 said:

A uni-directional WAG is the same speed as any other gate: the main thing that slows them down is customers waiting for the gates to close, or to read their balance, before entering. Once you get the 'beep' and green light you can go, and once that happens the next person can follow.

The key difference with bi-directional WAGs is that they generally operate as 'First Come, First Served', but the way this is implemented is that the Oyster reader/mag stripe slot will flip-flop between each side, pausing for a few seconds to allow someone to present their ticket/card. This process begins as soon as the gates start closing: if you are efficient in your taps you can easily get through without it returning to this mode and remaining in the last used direction until everyone is through.

I am loathe to say this but 'slow' gates are, 9/10, customer error. In this instance they are behaving as designed.

WAG = Wide Aisle Gate

Click to expand...

Once you know about first come, first served, it is a lot easier as you can just wait or hold your card over the pad if using that (in London on the tube, you'll almost certainly be doing this than using a paper ticket or barcode). The problem is, if you don't know then you'll likely get an error (or no response), and depending on how you might try again you could keep missing 'your turn' and create frustration not only for yourself, but others. So you're right, it's almost always customer error - but perhaps they can't be entirely blamed for making the error.

The gates could potentially have some indication of how they work when in this mode, but of course people who don't know aren't likely to be looking around for some sort of notice - assuming there was even a suitable place to put a note. Given the paper ticket reader, contactless pad and maybe an e-ticket reader, they can be quite confusing in this mode and quite often staff just pick a mode and swap it from the control point (SCU).

After reading the posts above, now I understand why the WAG doesn't respond to my card touch and shows some kind of a countdown on its screen.

So as a customer who wants to get through the gates quickly, what should I do if I see the screen counting down?
A) Wait for the countdown to finish before touching my card.
B) Touch my card on the pad and wait. Does it count down faster with the card on the pad?

boiledbeans2 said:

After reading the posts above, now I understand why the WAG doesn't respond to my card touch and shows some kind of a countdown on its screen.

So as a customer who wants to get through the gates quickly, what should I do if I see the screen counting down?
A) Wait for the countdown to finish before touching my card.
B) Touch my card on the pad and wait. Does it count down faster with the card on the pad?

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C) Use a narrow gate if possible.

If not, B. It won't count down faster but will scan the card immediately after changing around.