Class15
Established Member
I thought almost all freight into Coatbridge was nocturnal these days? 4M80 possibly being the exception, but that’s diesel anyway as it would terminate at Basford Hall (running via Toton which definitely has no wires!)
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Rail Freight Flows and News UK
- Thread starter pmb
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Sorry, I thought you meant the driver training runs wouldn't be using 90s.
Class15
Established Member
Ah, apologies, my post wasn’t very clear on second reflection.
It’s a great picture of the red class 90s by the way!
3973EXL
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 2,741
Mainline connection to Horton Quarry has gone in.
geordieblue
Member
According to this article https://scrca.foscl.org.uk/location-summaries/ribblehead-railhead-and-transfer-sidings Ribblehead VQ is supplied from Ingleton Quarry (south-west of Ribblehead) so the new loading point at Horton shouldn’t lead to an end of the Ribblehead flow.
high camera
Member
- Joined
- 16 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 135
So when Horton reopens how many flows will there be generated on all the S&C spurs ?
WessexEclectic
Member
- Joined
- 20 May 2013
- Messages
- 186
According to Yorkshire Dales National Park Local Plan 2016 (pdf) Section 5.41 Page 71, "Conditional approval for the re-instatement of the railhead at Horton Quarry was given in 1996..." !
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Friday 25th April saw the first time that the (ex-Whatley) 6O40 Westbury to Ardingly Hanson stone terminal and 6V57 return empties (photo attached) have actually run, since paths were allocated M-F effective from 16th Dec 2024.
I understand 25th April was a trial, so do any of you know the trial's purpose and outcome? It has not run since that date.
I understand 25th April was a trial, so do any of you know the trial's purpose and outcome? It has not run since that date.
Attachments
Last edited:
Use it or lose it?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
That doesn't really tie into why it didn't run for more than four months and then hadn't run since. Stone demand surely can't be that low, else why path it in the first place?
By way of comparison, the (ex-Merehead) 6O52 Westbury to Chichester and 6V09 return empties run when the aggregate stockpile runs low and predicted demand for more. That can be several workings in one week, or a couple of workings in a month. But, it does run (photo attached of it being passed by the 6O68 Westbury to Crawley working).
Attachments
Last edited:
Use it or lose it would refer to the allocation of the paths as per the network code.
The FOC may run the path even if not carrying product at least once in the timetable period to prevent the capacity being reallocated by NR. (Reallocation is a lot more complicated than that but that's a general thrust)
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Thanks - that's a new thing learned.
The 25th April working was loaded and so I wonder if it was also to "prove" the infrastructure at Ardingly.
I presume the unloader is a newer one than that used in the 1980s (when trains were ARC PGA hoppers, led by a brace of 33s and latterly a 56).
Class15
Established Member
The Ardingly train has run for ages, but was normally part of the Hanwell ‘Jumbo’ trains, rather than the Westbury/Coastway operation.Thanks - that's a new thing learned.
The 25th April working was loaded and so I wonder if it was also to "prove" the infrastructure at Ardingly.
I presume the unloader is a newer one than that used in the 1980s (when trains were ARC PGA hoppers, led by a brace of 33s and latterly a 56).
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Exactly. That's one reason I was surprised at the resurrected path along the West Coastway; and bewildered at non-use.
Class15
Established Member
Of course a path down the West Coastway means no reversal at Haywards Heath. Is that why this route was used? Could it be used more in future?
It also means avoiding the loop around Mitre Bridge junction and the West London Line.
Use in the future will depend on the strength of demand and efficiency of crewing the route.
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Adrian Barr
Member
The ECML through Newark and Retford was cleared for W10 traffic about the same time as the joint line through Spalding and Lincoln was upgraded for container traffic. It's not officially a W10 route in the sectional appendix, but cleared on the RT3973 paperwork. I think this was to provide a W10 diversionary route for overnight engineering work.
4E30 Felixstowe - Leeds passing Retford in 2024 with high cubes on regular freightliner flats: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jp4712/53612306889/ (Photo: Paul Williams)
Didn't know about that, but good to see!
Interesting link, thanks. Looking at the Heidelberg website, the two quarries produce different materials so the Horton traffic should be additional. It's possible that once the new railhead is open, Heidelberg could load the Ingleton material at Horton instead of Ribblehead, but that might depend on whether planning restrictions let them road it a few miles further than the current loading point at Ribblehead.
Looking at current Arcow and Ribblehead flows that I know of:
================
Arcow Quarry (Tarmac)
================
https://www.tarmac.com/locations/arcow-quarry/
https://www.tarmac.com/locations/dry-rigg-hardstone-quarry/
Arcow - Bredbury
https://www.flickr.com/photos/72996689@N02/54466128033/ (Photo: Mark Slater)
Arcow - Hunslet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/54397525150/ (Photo: British Rail 1980s and 1990s)
Arcow - Pendleton
https://www.flickr.com/photos/112654571@N02/54352251369/ (Photo: Tinsley Tyke)
Arcow - Scunthorpe (boxes, via Doncaster)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22198879@N05/54452223281/ (Photo: jimtinnion)
===========================================
Hanson (Heidelberg) Ribblehead - material from Ingleton Quarry
===========================================
https://www.heidelbergmaterials.co.uk/en/aggregates/ingleton-quarry
Materials: Hardstone (high Polished Stone Value Greywacke)
Ribblehead - Hunslet (boxes)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mick_page/54410184898/ (Photo: Mick Page)
Ribblehead - Ashton-in-Makerfield (boxes, via Tuebrook). N.B. May also be offloaded at Tuebrook, but the past few trains have been sent forward from Tuebrook to Ashton-in-Makerfield
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/54286593106/ (Photo: Dave McDigital)
==================
Horton Quarry (Heidelberg)
==================
https://www.heidelbergmaterials.co.uk/en/aggregates/horton-quarry
Materials: Limestone
-----------------------------------
Last edited:
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,749
Drawings for new sidings in Horton quarry were first produced in 1969ish. I drew them.
Adrian Barr
Member
Another interesting bank holiday diversion for the 6M45 Dollands Moor - Daventry water train today, diverted after Willesden via Kew, Ascot, Reading, Oxford, Tyseley, Water Orton, Nuneaton and Rugby:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:77367/2025-05-05/detailed
In addition to the "use it or lose it" aspect, the use of that 6O40 path will also depend on what traffic is on the jumbo service that normally forms the Ardingly train. I think the loaded jumbo is usually 6A00 (or 6A01 if it has to run via Swindon).
6O29 03:28 Southall - Ardingly ran on 23rd April as a portion off 6A00 22:48 Whatley - Southall.
6O29 03:31 Hanwell Bridge - Ardingly ran on 30th April as a portion off 6A01 22:19 Whatley - Hanwell Bridge.
Looking at the past couple of weeks, portions on that jumbo can be:
6L02 to Chesterton (ran 24/04, 28/04, 01/05)
6O26 to Purley (ran 02/05)
6L28 to Dagenham (ran 22/04, 23/04, 30/04)
6O29 to Ardingly (ran 23/04, 30/04)
Assuming these portions load to 18 wagons or more, the jumbo is only able to take two portions. If two of these trains needed to run plus the Ardingly, the Ardingly train could run separately on the 6O40 path. Alternatively, if the only traffic planned on 6A00 was an Ardingly portion, it could run direct on the 6O40 path instead - this appears to be the case on 25th April, which makes it a convenient day to use the 6O40 path which would need to be used occasionally anyway to retain it. The mileage from Whatley to Ardingly via Newbury or via the Coastway is not that different, I make it 146 via Newbury or 133 via the Coastway route. One involves a run round at Haywards Heath, the other at Westbury. I'm not sure what the crewing implications are for each route, but that would also be a factor.
I'm not so sure, the unloading shed in these undated British Rail era shots looks suspiciously similar to the current one!
A blue 47 and Amey Roadstone PGAs at Ardingly (late 1970s?)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/108302915@N04/26648997791/ (Photo: Brian Bennett)
Class 56 with PGAs at Ardingly (1980s)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/108302915@N04/54281651193/ (Photo: Brian Bennett)
The view from the top of the conveyor in 2016:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/51541786261/ (Photo: Adrian Backshall)
Inside the discharge shed in 2016:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/51542038468/ (Photo: Adrian Backshall)
Those last two photos are from are very nice flickr album covering the Ardingly branch:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/albums/72157719941318266/
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:77367/2025-05-05/detailed
In addition to the "use it or lose it" aspect, the use of that 6O40 path will also depend on what traffic is on the jumbo service that normally forms the Ardingly train. I think the loaded jumbo is usually 6A00 (or 6A01 if it has to run via Swindon).
6O29 03:28 Southall - Ardingly ran on 23rd April as a portion off 6A00 22:48 Whatley - Southall.
6O29 03:31 Hanwell Bridge - Ardingly ran on 30th April as a portion off 6A01 22:19 Whatley - Hanwell Bridge.
Looking at the past couple of weeks, portions on that jumbo can be:
6L02 to Chesterton (ran 24/04, 28/04, 01/05)
6O26 to Purley (ran 02/05)
6L28 to Dagenham (ran 22/04, 23/04, 30/04)
6O29 to Ardingly (ran 23/04, 30/04)
Assuming these portions load to 18 wagons or more, the jumbo is only able to take two portions. If two of these trains needed to run plus the Ardingly, the Ardingly train could run separately on the 6O40 path. Alternatively, if the only traffic planned on 6A00 was an Ardingly portion, it could run direct on the 6O40 path instead - this appears to be the case on 25th April, which makes it a convenient day to use the 6O40 path which would need to be used occasionally anyway to retain it. The mileage from Whatley to Ardingly via Newbury or via the Coastway is not that different, I make it 146 via Newbury or 133 via the Coastway route. One involves a run round at Haywards Heath, the other at Westbury. I'm not sure what the crewing implications are for each route, but that would also be a factor.
I'm not so sure, the unloading shed in these undated British Rail era shots looks suspiciously similar to the current one!
A blue 47 and Amey Roadstone PGAs at Ardingly (late 1970s?)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/108302915@N04/26648997791/ (Photo: Brian Bennett)
Class 56 with PGAs at Ardingly (1980s)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/108302915@N04/54281651193/ (Photo: Brian Bennett)
The view from the top of the conveyor in 2016:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/51541786261/ (Photo: Adrian Backshall)
Inside the discharge shed in 2016:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/51542038468/ (Photo: Adrian Backshall)
Those last two photos are from are very nice flickr album covering the Ardingly branch:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/190798096@N07/albums/72157719941318266/
Last edited:
Many thanks for the clarification, I don't have access to RT3973s so interesting to know it is cleared for W10.
WessexEclectic
Member
- Joined
- 20 May 2013
- Messages
- 186
Are they still experimenting with mid train locos on the Jumbos (to save on shunting) or has that finished?
+1 -> Very nice album.
Ha! Does the finished layout deviate much from the original drawings?....
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Is it still a trial or has it now moved into a normal operation with a rule or permission somewhere?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Honestly I don’t know. That linked photo is by a fellow local photographer who gets up to the area on a regular basis.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,749
Yes. We were rather more ambitious in those days with a crossover on the main lines to avoid all that running to Blea Moor and a run round loop within the sidings.
Adrian Barr
Member
This short undated "case study" on the Freightliner website indicates it's now moved past the trial phase into general use, but with many of the loaded jumbo trains running overnight I'm not sure how frequently it happens.
There's a few other case studies that might be of interest to readers of this thread, I sometimes look at the news pages of the freight hauliers but hadn't noticed these before:
https://www.freightliner.co.uk/heavy-haul/case-studies/
ABB125
Established Member
Is this with both locomotives powering, or just the one at the front?