ScotRail Starlink Internet Trials

Buzby · 12 May 2025

Six class 158 trains serving the north of Scotland (Kyle & Far North lines) have been converted to supply on-train passenger WiFi as part of a six month trial and is claimed to be the first time Starlink has been used to provide a service on trains in the UK.

Herald Newspaper

Six ScotRail trains in the Scottish Highlandshave been fitted with technology that uses Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide internet access on board services.

The six month trial will see the class 158 trains become the first in the UK to use it for onboard passenger Wi-Fi.

ScotRail has worked with Clarus Networks to design the new system which allows the trains operating in rural Scotland to connect with a Low Earth Orbit satellite network.
It uses Starlink technology, and it is hoped it will address the long-standing connectivity challenges in the region.

I was too busy looking at the views to bother with looking at my phone, but someone will find this useful!

RailUK Forums

Milo T.K · 12 May 2025

Hopefully a lot faster than icomera

Recessio · 12 May 2025

Exciting stuff. I'd be interested to see how the antennas work. My understanding is the dish has to track the movement of the satellite? If so, I wonder how they keep a moving antenna within gauge.

Milo T.K said:
Hopefully a lot faster than icomera

Latency is higher with satellite connections (physically a longer distance for the signal to travel), but yes hopefully the speed and chiefly the coverage will be a lot better

kkong · 12 May 2025

Recessio said:
Exciting stuff. I'd be interested to see how the antennas work. My understanding is the dish has to track the movement of the satellite? If so, I wonder how they keep a moving antenna within gauge.

Latency is higher with satellite connections (physically a longer distance for the signal to travel), but yes hopefully the speed and chiefly the coverage will be a lot better

The antennas are phased array (electronically steerable), so no physical movement is required.

Similar to the antennas used on aircraft for satellite internet provided by Starlink, Viasat etc.

The latency increase compared to terrestrial mobile networks will not be noticeable for most use cases, especially when using LEO (low earth orbit) satellites such as Starlink.

Buzby · 12 May 2025

Recessio said:
I wonder how they keep a moving antenna within gauge.

As @kkong notes, the Gen 1 dishes needed to track the constellation, however the new (smaller) squarials have a phased array construction and can be mounted on the roof - and there’s no worry about OLE getting in the way!

Steddenm · 12 May 2025

There's a video here about it:

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poffle · 12 May 2025

kkong said:
The antennas are phased array (electronically steerable), so no physical movement is required.

Similar to the antennas used on aircraft for satellite internet provided by Starlink, Viasat etc.

The latency increase compared to terrestrial mobile networks will not be noticeable for most use cases, especially when using LEO (low earth orbit) satellites such as Starlink.

Also although the speed of light is constant in free space, but significantly lower in fibre optic cables. (3x10E8 m/s v 2x10E8 m/s)

The Starlink satellites can have laser links to get the signals to a satellite which is connected to a download location.

kkong · 12 May 2025

poffle said:
Also although the speed of light is constant in free space, but significantly lower in fibre optic cables. (3x10E8 m/s v 2x10E8 m/s)

The Starlink satellites can have laser links to get the signals to a satellite which is connected to a download location.

The difference between a few tens and a few hundred of milliseconds in round-trip time isn't going to make a significant difference to the use cases most people have for on-train internet service (messaging, streaming, email).

tfw756rider · 14 May 2025

Steddenm said:
There's a video here about it:

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Rick1984 · 14 May 2025

We had Starlink fitted on the ships I work on .
So much better than previous system.
Unfotunate that it's a Elon Musk company.

oglord · 14 May 2025

Rick1984 said:
Unfotunate that it's a Elon Musk company.

Why does that matter?

HSTEd · 14 May 2025

oglord said:
Why does that matter?

Well amongst other things, he has history of disabling services on a whim, in response to some imagined slight or in pursuit of some nebulous personal foreign policy.

Sealink · Tuesday at 14:17

My friend travelled on a train with Starlink.
Speeds:
Upload: 22.64Mbps
Download: 7.55Mbps
Ping (ms): 41.21
Jitter (ms): 1.22

Not terribly impressive given the figures I have seen bandied around - although I think better than their normal offering - downloads are usually faster than uploads aren't they?
I will admit I have no idea what Jitter means. And have forgotten what Ping means. Google to the rescue

Non StarLink train:

Upload: 11.28 Mbps
Download: 1.34Mbps
Ping (ms): 49.29
Jitter (ms): 5.53

Buzby · Tuesday at 14:42

Difficult to quantify - as location and number of passengers using it at the time will impact the results (also you’d expect Starlink to be better when in ‘problem coverage’ areas that prompted the switch!

HighlandStorm · Tuesday at 17:00

Is there a list of the 158 units fitted with StarLink? Thus able to figure out what services should have one.

My inner geek’s curiosity is getting the better of me !

WarrenTManager · Tuesday at 19:39

Buzby said:
Six class 158 trains serving the north of Scotland (Kyle & Far North lines) have been converted to supply on-train passenger WiFi as part of a six month trial and is claimed to be the first time Starlink has been used to provide a service on trains in the UK.

Herald Newspaper

I was too busy looking at the views to bother with looking at my phone, but someone will find this useful!

Not the first. There was a trial on a Mk IV set a year, year and a half or so ago.......

Buzby · Tuesday at 19:58

WarrenTManager said:
There was a trial on a Mk IV set

Which TOC? I understood they had to await the arrival of the new dishes as the earlier ones required motors to steer them. The press release stated that the 6 trains are already fitted out and in service. No 158 codes, just that the in-train PoS signage has been updated to reflect it.

DelW · Tuesday at 20:20

Sealink said:
My friend travelled on a train with Starlink.
Speeds:
Upload: 22.64Mbps
Download: 7.55Mbps
Ping (ms): 41.21
Jitter (ms): 1.22

Not terribly impressive given the figures I have seen bandied around - although I think better than their normal offering - downloads are usually faster than uploads aren't they?
I will admit I have no idea what Jitter means. And have forgotten what Ping means. Google to the rescue

Non StarLink train:

Upload: 11.28 Mbps
Download: 1.34Mbps
Ping (ms): 49.29
Jitter (ms): 5.53

One of my relatives uses Starlink (despite their dislike of its owner) as their only alternative is a copper wire connection at around 1Mbps. (Nearest cable is a mile or more away).

When I've stayed with them, the Starlink download speed has been around 5 - 7Mbps. I'd been expecting it to be faster too.

Recessio · Tuesday at 22:35

Sealink said:
My friend travelled on a train with Starlink.
Speeds:
Upload: 22.64Mbps
Download: 7.55Mbps
Ping (ms): 41.21
Jitter (ms): 1.22

Not terribly impressive given the figures I have seen bandied around - although I think better than their normal offering - downloads are usually faster than uploads aren't they?
I will admit I have no idea what Jitter means. And have forgotten what Ping means. Google to the rescue

Non StarLink train:

Upload: 11.28 Mbps
Download: 1.34Mbps
Ping (ms): 49.29
Jitter (ms): 5.53

Ping is the time it takes a signal to reach you. You can have blazing fast Internet over satellite connections, but because it has to travel all the way up to an oribiting satellite and down again, the distance covered is a lot longer than the length of a fibre cable on earth, so the ping is generally larger (worse) on satellite connections.

For browsing and downloads, a high ping isnt a problem, but it can be noticeable on games and calls when there are delays. (It's why TV Outside Broadcasts over satellite connections always have that awkward two second wait between the presenters speaking and the interviewee replying.)

poffle · Tuesday at 22:54

Recessio said:
Ping is the time it takes a signal to reach you. You can have blazing fast Internet over satellite connections, but because it has to travel all the way up to an oribiting satellite and down again, the distance covered is a lot longer than the length of a fibre cable on earth, so the ping is generally larger (worse) on satellite connections.

For browsing and downloads, a high ping isnt a problem, but it can be noticeable on games and calls when there are delays. (It's why TV Outside Broadcasts over satellite connections always have that awkward two second wait between the presenters speaking and the interviewee replying.)

Ping is actually the time taken from a packet to travel to a specific test IP address and the acknowledgement ( ping) to come back.

Jitter is the variation in delay. Low jitter means the delay is very consistent. High jitter causes problems with video streaming and telephony and can cause dropouts.

Once had a boss who had been a gamer who worked in a high bandwidth Internet business. He could blow other gamers out of the water. He was referred to as an LPB in the chat groups. Eventually he worked out LPB stood for Low Ping B*stard.

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