Chiltern barriers programmed to automatically reject disabled railcard tickets?

JoeH · 24 May 2025

Sorry if this is the wrong sub forum I wasn’t sure where to put it.

I am a holder of a Disabled Person’s Railcard and frequently travel across the country on various lines and TOCs.

I find that on Chiltern my tickets are routinely automatically rejected by the barriers and I have to request assistance. This doesn’t happen with other TOCs and it has caused me to miss connecting trains and buses.

This happens with both paper and e-tickets.

It’s especially infuriating because Chiltern use barriers at small, understaffed stations so there are times where I’ve got off a train with about 30-40 other people and had to queue for the single barrier to exit only to have my ticket rejected (and nobody else’s), then I have to leave the queue to use the assistance terminal, which they often don’t even answer immediately.

It’s possible that all railcard tickets are being automatically rejected for manual inspection, but you would imagine out of a group of thirty other passengers at least some would be using a railcard of some description so the fact only my ticket was rejected makes me it feel like it’s only disabled cards. Plus I’ve not seen revenue protection staff on Chiltern for many years so who would be doing the manual inspection anyway?

I understand there must be an issue with people buying tickets they aren’t eligible for, but surely it can’t be right that tickets are automatically rejected? The thing is when they do eventually let me through they never actually ask to see my railcard so what was the point?

Is it even possible for staff to programme the barriers to do this?

RailUK Forums

Wallsendmag · 24 May 2025

Yes and they're not the only TOC

mister-sparky · 24 May 2025

The barriers at Waterloo reject railcard tickets

TUC · 24 May 2025

Surely they should at least have an assistance terminal right next to the barrier?

JoeH · 24 May 2025

TUC said:
Surely they should at least have an assistance terminal right next to the barrier?

They do have them but they don’t work well much of the time because staff are busy on other matters. My typical user experience is a loud burst of static and then nothing. I often have to press the button several times and sometimes have to wait a couple of minutes.

Regardless, even if they did work flawlessly it still seems wrong to single out disabled people and make them first queue for the barriers and then make them use the terminal and wait until all the other passengers go through the barriers to have them manually opened for them.

To be honest I don’t think they should have barriers in the first place without staff actually manning them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2025 ==

mister-sparky said:
The barriers at Waterloo reject railcard tickets

I’ve had issues at Waterloo in the evening where there aren’t as many staff about and they might not actually be at the gates but generally at large stations it’s not much of an issue (even Marylebone, which is pretty good due to the single small gate line).

The main issue with Chiltern is they still have barriers at smaller stations without platform staff and so to get through I have to use the remote terminals that don’t work properly.

Also, in my experience Chiltern barriers are programmed only to reject disabled railcards, so it feels like discrimination, and is one of several reasons I avoid Chiltern if at possible.

DelW · 24 May 2025

JoeH said:
Also, in my experience Chiltern barriers are programmed only to reject disabled railcards, so it feels like discrimination, and is one of several reasons I avoid Chiltern if at possible.

I don't have experience of Chiltern particularly but SWR regularly set their barriers to reject senior cards, so I don't think it's limited to either Chiltern or disabled cards.

It's ridiculous that after several decades of the industry promoting railcards, gatelines still can't cope with them. If railcards were issued in ITSO format, or with QR or Aztec codes, it would be possible to automate the check:

passenger presents ticket to barrier (mag-stripe or barcode)
barrier shows "please scan railcard" instead of the unhelpful "seek assistance"
passenger scans railcard code on scanner, or taps card on reader
barrier opens and admits passenger

But, yet again, the railway industry prefers to be unhelpful and to inconvenience its passengers rather than working out a solution. I've missed trains at Waterloo because of having to find a gateline assistant and wait for them to finish dealing with other passengers (or nattering with their mates) and let me through, by which time my train had left. And I can't get delay repay, because the train went on time, just without me on it.

LittleRedTrain · 24 May 2025

I use Marylebone and Banbury at least once a week, and quite often Birmingham Moor Street, using Disabled Railcard discounted tickets, and never once had a problem with them not working the barriers. This is with both paper and e-tickets.
Are there particular stations/times where you've had this problem?

I have a contact on Chiltern's Accessibility Panel, so if this is definitely a Disabled Railcard specific issue, I can see if I can get it raised.

I agree that disabled people should not be expected to have to seek assistance every time, especially as this is more difficult with a visual/mobility impairment that makes it more difficult to find/reach the staff or intercom.

Tazi Hupefi · 24 May 2025

Although this will be all/most railcards in this case, for the purposes of revenue protection - some TOCs (well at least one) blocks them and some related disability discounts at gates specifically to prompt staff to check whether they need assistance or support with their journey. It also reduces the risk of certain people getting "stuck" in the barriers, either because their mobility isn't great and they are quite slow, or putting walking sticks, frames etc ahead of them, causing the gates to close on them.

It probably is frustrating for disabled Railcard holders who require no support at all, but overall, it's likely a good thing in my opinion, especially if it does have the effect of also weeding out fare evaders.

In the past, this wasn't as much of an issue as people bought their tickets at the station- but online/apps dominate now, reducing the likelihood of encountering staff.

Disability free pass misuse are also TfLs biggest cause of fraud/evasion - just for added context!

Peter Mugridge · 24 May 2025

Wallsendmag said:
Yes and they're not the only TOC

mister-sparky said:
The barriers at Waterloo reject railcard tickets

I haven't had any rejections at either Marylebone or Waterloo for a very long time now and I'm a disabled railcard holder... my most recent time was yesterday at Waterloo - no problems.

Last time I was through Marylebone was in February - no problems.

I'm wondering if the barrier rejections might be a combination of two separate factors rather than just the railcard; are the barriers capable of being set to reject for two circumstances, but to let one of those circumstances on its own through?

Tazi Hupefi · 24 May 2025

Peter Mugridge said:
I haven't had any rejections at either Marylebone or Waterloo for a very long time now and I'm a disabled railcard holder... my most recent time was yesterday at Waterloo - no problems.

Last time I was through Marylebone was in February - no problems.

I'm wondering if the barrier rejections might be a combination of two separate factors rather than just the railcard; are the barriers capable of being set to reject for two circumstances, but to let one of those circumstances on its own through?

You can have multiple rules in place at a time, e.g. stop a particular ticket type, particular destination or particular Railcard - each rule is separate and binary.

What you can't do is stop a Railcard going to a specific destination or on a specific ticket type.

Alex27 · 24 May 2025

I can assure you that locks are not routinely left on at any of Chilterns gatelines, only occasionally when revenue are present. If you see what code it gives next time we can probably find out the reason for the rejections.

furlong · 26 May 2025

@Akex27 Years after the change, Moor Street still hasn't got to grips with the extension of the Gold Card area! (Barriers there have never opened with a Gold Card discounted ticket. Most recently a puzzling error 124 if I observed it correctly, capri code BF, origin Banbury, if you have any idea who might be able to fix this.)

CyrusWuff · 26 May 2025

furlong said:
@Akex27 Years after the change, Moor Street still hasn't got to grips with the extension of the Gold Card area! (Barriers there have never opened with a Gold Card discounted ticket. Most recently a puzzling error 124 if I observed it correctly, capri code BF, origin Banbury, if you have any idea who might be able to fix this.)

Until fairly recently, the gates at Moor Street were managed by WMT rather than Chiltern. Chiltern would have inherited WMT's configuration when they took it over.

Alex27 · 26 May 2025

furlong said:
@Akex27 Years after the change, Moor Street still hasn't got to grips with the extension of the Gold Card area! (Barriers there have never opened with a Gold Card discounted ticket. Most recently a puzzling error 124 if I observed it correctly, capri code BF, origin Banbury, if you have any idea who might be able to fix this.)

I'll pass it on. Honestly never noticed that myself, but then I don't get up to Moor Street that often.

computerSaysNo · 26 May 2025

Tazi Hupefi said:
some TOCs (well at least one) blocks them and some related disability discounts at gates specifically to prompt staff

So the TOC has decided to unconsensually out disabled people?

Tazi Hupefi said:
to prompt staff to check whether they need assistance or support with their journey.

If people need help then they can... ask?

For people with certain conditions e.g. autism, having the gate constantly reject their valid ticket can increase anxiety and stress, as can having a staff member coming up to them and trying to talk to them when they're not expecting it or wanting it.

Can you imagine if the barista at Starbucks said loudly to every person they perceived as overweight "do you have diabetes? I don't think you should be ordering that cake!".

renegademaster · 26 May 2025

computerSaysNo said:
can increase anxiety and stress,

So could having to wait 2 hours because your trained was missed because staff didn't realise you needed passenger assist for that train

computerSaysNo · 26 May 2025

renegademaster said:
So could having to wait 2 hours because your trained was missed because staff didn't realise you needed passenger assist for that train

Not everybody who uses a disabled Railcard will need or want assistance. Isn't the whole point in being able to book assistance so that staff know one individual wants assistance rather than asking everybody?

renegademaster · 26 May 2025

computerSaysNo said:
Not everybody who uses a disabled Railcard will need or want assistance

And not everybody who has a disabled railcard will take offence to using a staffed gate to benefit those it will actually help

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2025 ==

computerSaysNo said:
Isn't the whole point in being able to book assistance so

The measure is aimed at those who haven't booked assistance

65477 · 26 May 2025

I have just found this thread and am concerned.

I have a Disabled Persons Railcard because I am diagnosed as extremely hard of hearing. As I understand this thread Chiltern employ intercom based systems at their gates. If this is the only way of communicating with staff at the gates this would seem to discriminate against deaf passengers.

Bletchleyite · 26 May 2025

renegademaster said:
And not everybody who has a disabled railcard will take offence to using a staffed gate to benefit those it will actually help

Those who prefer to speak to staff can choose to do so. Some autistic people (for instance) hate this, so this would to me be discriminatory and thus illegal. Or a disabled person may miss a train by having to wait longer to pass the gateline. Or a partially sighted person might struggle to locate the staff, or a deaf person might struggle to communicate with them. And ever since manual gates were abolished, even as an able bodied person I often struggle to find the staff if my ticket is rejected (I really do see this as a very retrograde change at gatelines, particularly given how wide gates are abused by fare dodgers who could have been stopped by staff at manual gates).

Chiltern should reverse this ludicrous policy about which I would be very unhappy indeed if I held such a Railcard. If they don't, hopefully someone who is discriminated against by way of it will bring a legal case against them to force them to do so.

Alex27 · 26 May 2025

I've no idea about other TOCs, but this is not a thing at Chiltern at all. I'd be surprised if blocking disabled railcards for such a reason was a thing at any TOC to be honest, had somebody got the wrong end of the stick?

Leogilbert007 · 26 May 2025

As someone with a disabled persons railcard this feels unnecessary. For my railcard application I had to upload a copy of my PIP statement and it had to be accepted. It would be a lot of effort to doctor a false PIP document when other railcards are easier to fraudulently obtain. it also takes me longer to get to platforms, even though I can walk unaided, and I simply cannot alight SWR’s 455s — but only those trains in particular, others are fine — alone due to the size of the gap between the platform and train. Living in London, extensive knowledge of the transport system, and my ability to walk mean that I can adapt my journeys and plans if needed, but I can see that being a real hindrance to other people who are less fortunate.

crablab · 26 May 2025

DelW said:
If railcards were issued in ITSO format, or with QR or Aztec codes, it would be possible to automate the check:

Digital Railcards do have an Aztec.

Can you imagine the pandemonium if passengers with Railcard discounted tickets had to present them at the gateline?! Ticket rejection is bad enough without adding the good 30s it takes some people to find their Railcard, as for a manual ticket inspection on the train!

Random inspection at the gateline would be even worse. Potentially dangerous at some terminuses during the peak, in fact.

renegademaster said:
The measure is aimed at those who haven't booked assistance

Alex27 said:
I've no idea about other TOCs, but this is not a thing at Chiltern at all. I'd be surprised if blocking disabled railcards for such a reason was a thing at any TOC to be honest, had somebody got the wrong end of the stick?

Tazi Hupefi said:
some TOCs (well at least one) blocks them and some related disability discounts at gates specifically to prompt staff to check whether they need assistance

To clarify, have we actually established automatic rejection of disabled persons Railcards is policy at a TOC?

@Alex27, as an informed poster suggests not at Chiltern. Perhaps @Tazi Hupefi might elucidate on which TOCs this is policy?

red star · 29 May 2025

I have copied this thread to the EHRC - await feedback

Haywain · 29 May 2025

red star said:
I have copied this thread to the EHRC

EHRC?

Trainbike46 · 29 May 2025

computerSaysNo said:
So the TOC has decided to unconsensually out disabled people?

If people need help then they can... ask?

For people with certain conditions e.g. autism, having the gate constantly reject their valid ticket can increase anxiety and stress, as can having a staff member coming up to them and trying to talk to them when they're not expecting it or wanting it.

Can you imagine if the barista at Starbucks said loudly to every person they perceived as overweight "do you have diabetes? I don't think you should be ordering that cake!".

While I agree that automatically rejecting all disabled railcard tickets is a bad idea, having a ticket rejected at the gateline is hardly outing anyone, given the frequency of tickets getting demagnetised!

In general, TfL's strategy, where an indicator light shows up if a railcard discounted ticket is used, but the user is let through is better. If there are revenue staff, they can ask the railcard users to show the railcard, while passengers aren't slowed down the vast majority of the time there isn't a revenue team on site.

Haywain said:
EHRC?

Presumably the Equality and Human Rights Commission

Bletchleyite · 29 May 2025

Trainbike46 said:
While I agree that automatically rejecting all disabled railcard tickets is a bad idea, having a ticket rejected at the gateline is hardly outing anyone, given the frequency of tickets getting demagnetised!

I don't think it's *outing* anyone but it is inconveniencing them compared to those not using a disabled Railcard, and so is discrimination and thus unlawful.

Were it done for all Railcards it probably would not be unlawful.

Trainbike46 · 29 May 2025

Bletchleyite said:
I don't think it's *outing* anyone but it is inconveniencing them compared to those not using a disabled Railcard, and so is discrimination and thus unlawful.

Were it done for all Railcards it probably would not be unlawful.

I agree it is a bad policy; but I was responding to a poster who did say it was outing disabled people.

If you want to have the option to check railcards at barriers, the TfL strategy is likely a better one, as it doesn't inconvenience any passengers when the staff to do the actual check isn't around.

AlterEgo · 29 May 2025

computerSaysNo said:
So the TOC has decided to unconsensually out disabled people?

To whom? Railway staff? To whom I have to show my Railcard anyway?

computerSaysNo said:
Can you imagine if the barista at Starbucks said loudly to every person they perceived as overweight "do you have diabetes? I don't think you should be ordering that cake!".

Not remotely similar, mostly because the barrier isn’t bellowing “DISABLED CUSTOMER” when rejecting the ticket.

Railguy1 · 29 May 2025

Has anyone asked Chiltern if they have done this or is it just an innocent (and unfortunate) mistake? I’d also like to know why it seems to happen to the OP and not, based on some posts here, other users who use Chiltern?

Chiltern barriers programmed to automatically reject disabled railcard tickets?

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