brad465
Established Member
Whether or not the substance of that post is true isn't what matters here. It's a major attack in an almighty spat that will have some serious consequences for both parties and several others.
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Elon Musk - the world's "greatest" spiv?
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styles
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Oh for sure, I think Grok disagreeing with Musk adds to the comedy.
Cloud Strife
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I wouldn't be shocked if Twitter gets shut down on some pretext sooner rather than later. Trump is not going to let Musk abuse him like this on there, although watching those two go at it is absolutely hilarious
For what it's worth, my money is on Trump winning this battle. Musk is way too dependent on state aid for his companies, and I wouldn't be shocked if the grey suits step in to remove him from Tesla after today's meltdown. It's obvious that it's all because Trump's tax bill didn't contain a large bribe for Musk in the form of EV subsidies, though.
styles
Member
Nah Trump is many things, but shutting down a social media platform just because he has a spat with the owner isn't him. He'd lose a ridiculous amount of support, among his 'free speech' fan base.
Just bought some TSLA shares though, great value today.
Egg Centric
Established Member
Oh this is beautiful. So, so, beautiful. I have been giggling like a schoolgirl for hours.
dangie
Established Member
Let’s just hope it continues. I’m not taking sides, but maybe I am.
If one gives an insult, I hope the other trades it back….. repeat….. repeat…..
Giugiaro
Established Member
I would say that Elon Musk is the one in the most fragile position here.
Donald Trump can, in a couple of executive orders, shut down the viability of both Tesla, SpaceX and xAI.
The use of drugs is also a great liability that Elon Musk has under the eyes of the Republican Party.
Then this:
Donald Trump can, in a couple of executive orders, shut down the viability of both Tesla, SpaceX and xAI.
The use of drugs is also a great liability that Elon Musk has under the eyes of the Republican Party.
Then this:
Cheaper than they were last week certainly. They're still trading at a massive multiple of underlying value though, and all of the growth potential that was predicated on has gone up in smoke over the last 4 months. The Stupid Big Bill arguably halves the remaining net income they do have.
It's a meme stock at this point, trading entirely on the perceived willingness of others to continue buying it irrespective of value.
Might be a bargain, or might just be the start of a long slide to a massive loss.
styles
Member
I've turned £800 into just shy of £1500 since October buying and selling Tesla shares. I'm no Warren Buffett but doing well riding the absurdity of Musk.
Tesla shares will go back up, just not to their December price any time soon
I'm waiting for the day he decides to run for Congress.
Gloster
Established Member
…but many millions of losers.
DelW
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As a car company (as opposed to an AI or robotics company, which Musk would like it to be), Tesla has some big problems.
The Cybertruck is a sales disaster. The production line was set up for 125k to 250k per year (depending whom you believe) but is selling just a few thousand a quarter (Tesla groups them with other models so it's impossible to be precise). YouTube has videos of parking lots full of them - Tesla says they've been sold and are awaiting delivery, but many are dust covered and appear not to have been moved for some time.
The robotaxi is supposed to finally be released into trial service imminently. I suspect one of the reasons for Musk's enthusiasm for DOGE was because he hoped to emasculate the safety and regulatory bodies that oversee his companies. If the fallout with Trump becomes permanent, the scrutiny of Tesla robotaxis may instead become more rather than less rigorous. Tesla's camera-only sensor system may be less effective than its competitors' - and Cruise's self driving taxis were ultimately withdrawn after a single serious pedestrian accident (admittedly contributed to by other failings).
All that is on top of the drop in sales inside and outside of the US as a result of political disdain (to put it mildly) for his toxic political views. Even though the Take Down Tesla campaign has quietened down lately, Musk is widely despised and distrusted, and rightly or wrongly, that reflects on people's opinions of Tesla cars. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then I never liked their "everything via menus on a touchscreen" controls anyway.
gg1
Established Member
It was inevitable as it is entertaining.
The best part is they both have the resources to damage the other and are petty and vindictive enough to do so.
brad465
Established Member
Just in case there was any doubt:
www.bbc.co.uk
Trump says relationship with Musk is over
The US president says Musk has been "very disrespectful" and he has no interest in mending ties with the tech billionaire.
www.bbc.co.uk
SuspectUsual
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I wouldn’t be so sure. What this does is position it so that if there is any change in the future and they do rekindle their relationship, Trump can then say he was right all along and Musk came crawling back apologising
styles
Member
I mean this is just what happens when you are an edgelord and try and make your companies follow an edgelord brand.
Tesla was doing fine before CyberTruck. Their cars were market leading EVs with features and performance often not seen by any competitors.
CyberTruck was a result of Musk's own daft persona. He just wants to be edgy and different and non-compliant. So he made a car which was edgy and different and non-compliant (in a literal legal compliance sense in much of Europe).
Yes you'll sell some of your dumb trucks to your die-hard supporters. But most people, understandably, do not want a massive truck with sharp edges, which leaks, traps people's fingers, and doesn't perform anywhere near as well as actual off-road designed pickup trucks. Also you attract undesirable attention.
Things like having a department to look at government efficiencies aren't actually terrible ideas, but calling it that just to spell out DOGE is cringe, and most sensible voters realise it's cringe. Spending hours every day tweeting memes, insulting people, getting into public rows and having your followers pile-on your opponent just isn't what people want. Eventually you transcend from being somebody challenging the status quo into this edgelord status and people get bored of it pretty quickly, apart from your regular 4chan/b base.
DelW
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Another firework display from Musk's SpaceX, testing "Starship 36" by firing all six engines in a static ground test. I think it can safely be said that it didn't go to plan, and it won't be making its scheduled flight. One report said that Musk classified the outcome as an anomaly, but it looks more like (in an earlier phrase) a rapid unscheduled disassembly. The size of the explosions and subsequent fireball suggest it probably disassembled most of the test facility as well. The good thing is that no one was hurt, though the environmental damage hasn't yet been reported on.
One of the less sensational videos here, with multiple angles:
(YouTube video of the test results)
One of the less sensational videos here, with multiple angles:
brad465
Established Member
I'm a firm believer in failure being the key to eventual success. However, I can't help but think this particular enterprise isn't really getting anywhere and either needs abandoning or a serious drawing board overhaul.
DerekC
Established Member
I think there is a real problem with safety critical systems being designed by software geeks who spent their previous lives on web apps. They use the approach of - try it out - if it breaks modify it a bit - repeat cycle until the level of complaints is acceptable and the money starts rolling in. Building a spaceship that way is inclined to be spectacular! At least they haven't killed anyone - yet. I wonder if Musk has heard of SIL4/IEC61508. Oh - he's probably defunded it!
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The iterative approach is also what they used on the Falcon rockets, which are now enormously successful.
Failing like this used to be the norm, when new rocket series were being designed. But NASA has become overly cautious and bureaucratic, hence the Space Launch System has managed only one launch after over a decade of development, reusing old Space Shuttle technology.
Something with ‘integrity’ in the title? Unlikely.
danielnez1
Member
I'm on the side that he is a (lucky) conman. His wealth comes from his family wealth from Apartheid era South Africa and cashing in on when PayPal boomed (after he was sacked). You just need to listen to him for a few minutes to realise he makes no coherent sense.
The Falcon was also designed by people who knew what they were doing, and was largely a conventional design (except for the bits required for reuse). Starship meanwhile is going backwards. It has never achieved the actual goal of launching anything to orbit, and now they can't even keep the thing on the ground without it exploding. At least they didn't have to close wide swathes of the US airspace or litter the caribbean with rocket parts this time!
Intentional failure was more common back when we actually had to learn this stuff from first principles, but it hasn't been the case for decades. Ariane 6 didn't require endless failed flight tests to get right, and before you say "just as bureaucratic as NASA", neither did Blue Origin or Vulcan Centaur.
In a way there are very strong parallels to what's going on at Tesla and the cybertruck. It is well known that both firms try to keep Musk from making any actual decisions, and both Starship and Cybertruck are examples of when he manages to get involved.
TheTTTEGeek
Member
what does Spiv mean? please understand i am very confused & looking it up on google is giving me no results (probably because I'm not in the UK)
Flying Snail
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Spiv - Wikipedia
TheTTTEGeek
Member
thank you very muchSpiv - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
A sort of Farage that sells stuff.
Interesting link to Farage as one wonders if Elon will make it to Mars before Nigel finds his way to Clacton...
Giugiaro
Established Member
You are to expect that, whatever failures arise, they do so progressively in later stages of flight with greater successes back in the earlier stages of flight. This continuously as the progress is eventually achieved throughout the whole mission.
Instead, SpaceX seems to be going backwards, and now their ships blow up during the static test phase.
I guess that double Nazi salute Musk gave brought his company back to Test Stand VII, in Peenemünde.
Cloud Strife
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And so he returns:
www.theguardian.com
This will have quite a few minor Republicans feeling the heat, especially those in districts where a split between Musk and Trump will result in a Democrat walkover. Whether Musk will be able to actually finance such a serious challenge is another question.
Musk vows to unseat lawmakers who support Trump’s ‘big, beautiful bill’
Tesla CEO also threatened forming an ‘America Party’ if the bill, which would increase US deficit by $3.3tn, is passed
www.theguardian.com
This will have quite a few minor Republicans feeling the heat, especially those in districts where a split between Musk and Trump will result in a Democrat walkover. Whether Musk will be able to actually finance such a serious challenge is another question.