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The end of the Royal Train

WesternLancer

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The reality is that the Royal Train was rarely used, and was 50 year old Mk 3s. A replacement would presumably have been made up of modified Mk5 carriages, to give sleeper and dining accommodation.


The royals can still use regular trains, it's the sleeping and dining car facilities which were unique to the royal train. Didn't the late Queen take scheduled trains to Sandringham?
Pretty low mileage tho so age probably not that relevant.

It will be the operational overheads that will make cost per journey high.

Do the accounting another way and hey presto it becomes cheap.
 
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IanXC

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And like a lot of recent DB loses, they’ve only just painted the two 67s up too…

In all seriousness though, I am sorry to see this happen. Though it was inevitable, it does feel like another shot in the arm for the railways, and a little against the green agenda. Though I’m sure it won’t stop some Royals travelling by Rail, as some, without as much fanfare, still do.

*shot in the foot
 

jackdoyle

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But even before that, it looks like it was a good year when it made it into double figures of trips.
I think it's been used four times since the King came to the throne. Twice in 2023 and twice this year.
 
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aar0

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I wonder why it was only used twice. Seems pointless if that's the extent of useful journeys it can make in a year.
I remember something 2-3 years ago suggesting Charles had been asked to use it less due to cost and because it gave an impression of excessive luxury - though I understand it is actually pretty austere inside.

Maybe a 3 coach 800 with beds etc to be attached to existing services and detached at HM’s destination (or near to). No additional paths or drivers (or a lot less than previously).
 

Krokodil

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Did we get transported back into 2005 or something? Plenty of EVs that could've been driven in the last decade.
The royal family had an EV long before they became popular. Apparently it was withdrawn after a few incidents where pedestrians didn't hear it coming. Obviously changing one of the existing Bentleys to biodiesel is much cheaper than buying a new car outright.

I think it's been used four times since the King came to the throne. Twice in 2023 and twice this year.
It's worth remembering that the King and the Princess of Wales have both spent time out of circulation while undergoing cancer treatment.

I wonder how the £44k compares to the cost of an ordinary charter train.
 

norbitonflyer

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Did we get transported back into 2005 or something? Plenty of EVs that could've been driven in the last decade.


:rolleyes:
Indeed, but the existing royal cars are by no means life-expired, so getting the most out of them has a lower total carbon footprint than building a new EV prematurely
 

Mikey C

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Pretty low mileage tho so age probably not that relevant.

It will be the operational overheads that will make cost per journey high.

Do the accounting another way and hey presto it becomes cheap.
The Mk3s are off course still safe, but in an accident wouldn't meet the standards of modern stock, and as Mk3s disappear from the national network will become more and more unique.
 

norbitonflyer

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was the royal train ever pulled by electric?, missed the chance to see it pulled by a 93 or 99
Before 1970, the locomtive of choice for the annual trip to Tattenham Corner for the Derby was one of the original SR "Boosters"

In later years, the choice for any Royal train on 3rd rail territory was "Royal" class 73 - 73142 Broadlands (so named in 1980 in honour of Earl Mountbatten's estate in Hampshire, whence it had hauled his funeral train in 1979, and whence it would also convey the Prince and Princess of Wales for their honeymoon in 1981)
 

Western Lord

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Before 1970, the locomtive of choice for the annual trip to Tattenham Corner for the Derby was one of the original SR "Boosters"

In later years, the choice for any Royal train on 3rd rail territory was "Royal" class 73 - 73142 Broadlands (so named in 1980 in honour of Earl Mountbatten's estate in Hampshire, whence it had hauled his funeral train in 1979, and whence it would also convey the Prince and Princess of Wales for their honeymoon in 1981)
I seem to recall that the locomotive of choice for the Derby Day Royal Train was a Stratford based Class 31 as the SR did not have any steam heat locos. When the stock was converted to ETH the Stratford men were somewhat miffed to lose the job.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I wonder how the £44k compares to the cost of an ordinary charter train.
The £44K will just be the bill sent to Buckingham Palace for the trip(s), on some arcane formula agreed with HMG.
The real cost, for dedicated staff to keep a special train permanently ready and in royal condition will be much higher.
Plus the "cost" to the railway of the special operating procedures when it is out and about.
It's not unlike the situation a few years ago with the retirement of RY Britannia (now a pubic exhibit in Leith).
 

thejuggler

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No surprise.

A helicopter will get them anywhere in the UK in a couple of hours no no need to stay on board overnight, which was the original purpose.
 

Magdalia

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Before 1970, the locomtive of choice for the annual trip to Tattenham Corner for the Derby was one of the original SR "Boosters"

I seem to recall that the locomotive of choice for the Derby Day Royal Train was a Stratford based Class 31 as the SR did not have any steam heat locos. When the stock was converted to ETH the Stratford men were somewhat miffed to lose the job.
The Derby Day Royal Train was for a long time a local Southern Region operation.

It was steam hauled up to 1964, up to 1962 with a Schools class, in 1963 and 1964 with a West Country Pacific.

The SR electric locos only worked 1965-68, they were the last Southern locos with steam heat.

Class 31s worked 1969-77 but Stratford locos only until 1971, from 1972 Old Oak provided the loco.

From 1961 to 1977 HM the Queen usually travelled in one of the East Coast Joint Stock Royal saloons, which were based at Bounds Green until 1973.

From 1978 onwards new Royal Train vehicles with ETH were used and the train was class 73 hauled.
 

38Cto15E

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Anyone spotted Belmond in the Wolverton area? :)

I was very fortunate to work the Royal train once in the 1970's, it was the Duke of Edinburgh who over nighted at Old Dalby and the following morning we went to Oakham where the Duke alighted.
We then ran round the train and went empty stock via Leiceter and Market Harborough and I was relieved at Northampton.
Although I was guard and technically in charge of the train, I wasn't if yo know what I mean. :)
 

DerekC

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Technically 11 vehicles. I can’t imagine it will all be saved and remain together - more than likely it’ll be the key, most important vehicles that will end up in somewhere like the NRM or one of its many offshoots.

And no, Waterloo International isn’t available - and hasn’t existed since December the 10th 2018 when it slowly became part of the main station again.
It was a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion - made because the international platforms (and I think that's still a clear way of referring to them) remain under-utilised by SWR. I am afraid you are right though, so we will have a car or two at the NRM York and others dotted around the country. Hopefully none rusting gently in some dodgy theme park.
 

Harpo

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There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors here as the total cost of maintaining the Royal Train isn’t mentioned anywhere nor is the source of the funds for that. All that is quoted in a BBC article is a sample two day journey:
The announcement came alongside the annual publication of royal finances, which showed that a journey on the royal train, from Gloucestershire to Staffordshire and then London, over two days in February, had cost more than £44,000.
If that were a two day railtour for 400 passengers it would only need £50 per person per day to break even. Bargain!

 

Krokodil

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So Charlie Boy will be flying from now on then?
Or driving, or using scheduled trains. Maybe even the odd chartered train - I imagine that when the P2 is launched it will be named by one of the royals.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That's environmental, not
To be fair, I doubt that a pair of 67s were light on fuel. Though at least they weren't supplying ETS
 

DelW

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The reality is that the Royal Train was rarely used, and was 50 year old Mk 3s.

Pretty low mileage tho so age probably not that relevant.

Corrosion wouldn't necessarily be correlated with mileage, though, and coaches which spend a lot of time unused might even suffer it worse than those in daily service.

A lot of the remaining mk3s, and mk3-based vehicles like 455s, are needing heavy corrosion repairs to keep them going for just a few more years. Almost all are likely to have been withdrawn from mainline use within five years or so.
 
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Gloster

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I reckon that £44,000 is just the direct railway costs. Additionally there are both the costs allocated to each journey, of which security weighs heavily and is often likely to be heavier than with other means of transport, and the overheads of maintenance, staff trains, etc. I think that the latter are directly borne by the Palace, so difficult to fully obtain, and are probably seen as unsustainably heavy.

I am pretty sure that there was at least one occasion when the Class 31 broke down on the Tattenham Corner branch with HM on board. One was not amused.
 

WesternLancer

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Corrosion wouldn't necessarily be correlated with mileage, though, and coaches which spend a lot of time unused might even suffer it worse than those in daily service.
Good point - I've always assumed when not in use it's in 'dry store' - ie for security reasons it is in side buildings at Wolverton as opposed to in the open air - but maybe not so. Not that such storage alone would prevent corrosion but it would limit it.
 

102 fan

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zwk500

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Good point - I've always assumed when not in use it's in 'dry store' - ie for security reasons it is in side buildings at Wolverton as opposed to in the open air - but maybe not so. Not that such storage alone would prevent corrosion but it would limit it.
I'm fairly sure it does have a shed at Wolverton but it does also stable overnight in the open air when out and about.
 

norbitonflyer

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The Derby Day Royal Train was for a long time a local Southern Region operation.

The SR electric locos only worked 1965-68, they were the last Southern locos with steam heat.

From 1978 onwards new Royal Train vehicles with ETH were used and the train was class 73 hauled.
Was this necessary? The Derby is run in June
 

WesternLancer

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I'm fairly sure it does have a shed at Wolverton but it does also stable overnight in the open air when out and about.
Thanks - doesn't sound like it spends much time facing the severity of the elements at least, which is good, as it has not been used as often as it could have been.

I suspect its costs and things are another downside of the fragmented post privatised railway.
 

BingMan

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The stock is now generally over 50 years old so will become more and more expensive to maintain. Whilst trains are an environmentally friendly form of transport the carbon footprint for one carrying a handful of passengers will be much bigger and Charles is well known for his views on climate change.
But, according to the report in the i-paper, the train will be replaced by two helicopters.
One of the least environmentally friendly means of transport.
And on of the most dangerous.
 

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