Breaking: TransPennine Express Franchise Extension

swt_passenger · 7 Aug 2011

jcollins said:
If you look at the document it's dated April 2009 and says the preferred tenders will be selected imminently and units will be service by May 2011.

I think that was the tender for replacing 323s should LM's 323s have gone to Northern with some extras tagged on as extra capacity and 321 replacement.

It's the only LM tender around though - there's nothing later. That's definitely the one for the extra EMUs - the 40 - 120 reflects the usual scope for DfT to move the goalposts. The fact it's delayed doesn't really alter that's what they were asking for at that time.

RailUK Forums

bluenoxid · 7 Aug 2011

swt_passenger said:
They didn't explicitly state 350, (probably not allowed to for legal reasons) but used the wording "preferably operationally compatible with existing London Midland vehicle fleet"; which I think everyone took to mean more 350s. IIRC SWT siad much the same thing in their ITT.

The London Midland ITT is here:

http://www.publictenders.net/tenders/archive/80997

however the idea that the Manchester - Scotland was later tacked on I can only blame on various rail magazines.

This tender has lapsed. The idea of Man - Scot has come from the DfT for providing stock for this service. However, there has not been any confirmation yet on how or who will supply the stock. They are running it rather close now if they want trains for the launch.

185 · 7 Aug 2011

swt_passenger said:
Ardwick has been proposed as the likely depot for the Manchester - Scotland EMUs, on the assumption they will be Siemens maintained 350s, and a separate depot for around 10 units would be uneconomic.

Will be a struggle, they can't cope with 51 units at present, so any more and the comparatively small Siemens depot will be gridlocked. The first train after midnight a couple of years ago on New Years Day was 2 hours late off whilst the depot played 'Train Tetris' trying to unbury it using shunt moves. There's no real scope to extend the depot either the depot is geographically sited on a triangle of land between three rail lines, one of which is disused, and the land surrounding it, including my humble abode

is all used up & sold.

PhilipW · 7 Aug 2011

News from 'Modern Railways' August 2011 - Page 4 headed 'Manchester-Scotland EMU Order Delayed'

The article states that the order is expected in September which, with the 25-month timeframe required by Siemens, makes it just possible for December 2013.

The order is expected to be for 4-car Class 350:
-- 10 sets for Manchester-Scotland
-- 5 sets for various LM routes
-- plus possibly 3 extra sets if Bromsgrove electrification is approved for Birmingham Cross City

Therefore either 15 or 18 sets are expected to be ordered.

swt_passenger · 7 Aug 2011

185 said:
Will be a struggle, they can't cope with 51 units at present, so any more and the comparatively small Siemens depot will be gridlocked. The first train after midnight a couple of years ago on New Years Day was 2 hours late off whilst the depot played 'Train Tetris' trying to unbury it using shunt moves. There's no real scope to extend the depot either the depot is geographically sited on a triangle of land between three rail lines, one of which is disused, and the land surrounding it, including my humble abode is all used up & sold.

Modern Railways said:
...Siemens and TPE have developed a plan for the servicing of ten electric sets to be accomodated at the Siemens Ardwick facility through the extension of the current train shed, electrification of the diesel only depot, and installation of a small amount of additional track.

But that still doesn't mean 10 units would stable there, presumably some will be outberthed overnight in Scotland?

bluenoxid · 7 Aug 2011

And I guess an assumption might be that more of the 185s will be moved to York

swt_passenger · 7 Aug 2011

bluenoxid said:
And I guess an assumption might be that more of the 185s will be moved to York

That's a good point, the DMU fleet will be diagrammed completely differently as well.

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2011

swt_passenger said:
But that still doesn't mean 10 units would stable there, presumably some will be outberthed overnight in Scotland?

Where would the most likely place in Scotland for this to occur, as both Glasgow and Edinburgh will be served by these units, as presently done by the Class 185 units.

IanXC · 9 Aug 2011

Paul Sidorczuk said:
Where would the most likely place in Scotland for this to occur, as both Glasgow and Edinburgh will be served by these units, as presently done by the Class 185 units.

Is there a Siemens depot for the 380s?

WatcherZero · 9 Aug 2011

I thought they were to be based in Liverpool.

Kingfisher200262 · 9 Aug 2011

WatcherZero said:
I thought they were to be based in Liverpool.

Wow! Where did that come come from?

Allerton depot is being refurbished at present, but I thought the idea with that was to split the Northern DMU fleet and treat it as a sub-depot of Newton Heath, also making it ready for the electrics after Chat Moss etc is electrified.

Does anyone else know different, or where the Siemens Liverpool depot thinking originated?

swt_passenger · 9 Aug 2011

I'm sure Allerton is just getting ready ahead of time for the eventual Northern 319 fleet. Completely separate programme to the probable Siemens Manchester/Scotland fleet.

pemma · 9 Aug 2011

Isn't there supposed to a new depot at Guide Bridge as well where the TPE Ardwick surplus will go?

Xenophon PCDGS · 11 Aug 2011

jcollins said:
Isn't there supposed to a new depot at Guide Bridge as well where the TPE Ardwick surplus will go?

I remember bringing up this matter in a thread when the depot at Allerton was being discussed some time ago, in which a driver at a meeting made reference to it, but I expressed my reservations at that time, due to lack of official clarification. Have you any news on the likely site where this depot could be situated?

185 · 11 Aug 2011

My thoughts behind Northern's move to Allerton depot were for more provision of services starting from South Parkway, to say Wigan.

Fingers crossed and by 2014, the government may have reconsidered this stupid fixation with running trains just from Manchester to Scotland and instead extend some West Coast London Manchester services north to Scotland, thus eliminating poxy little trains on this busy route.

pemma · 11 Aug 2011

Northern have announced that they are in talks with Network Rail about using Allerton depot.

It's rumoured that the 156s will be transferred from Newton Heath to Allerton (obviously minus the 4 going to EMT) to leave space at Newton Heath for the extra units arriving.

swt_passenger · 11 Aug 2011

jcollins said:
Northern have announced that they are in talks with Network Rail about using Allerton depot.

A few of the rail mags reported this as a done deal some time ago, and Northern have been actively recruiting staff for the last few weeks according to earlier threads.

driver9000 · 11 Aug 2011

jcollins said:
Northern have announced that they are in talks with Network Rail about using Allerton depot.

It's rumoured that the 156s will be transferred from Newton Heath to Allerton (obviously minus the 4 going to EMT) to leave space at Newton Heath for the extra units arriving.

Work started making Allerton habitable again a few months ago. Supposed to be open towards the end of the year. Recruiting is ongoing.

175001 · 11 Aug 2011

jcollins said:
Northern have announced that they are in talks with Network Rail about using Allerton depot.

Yup agreed a while ago, depot drivers etc being recruited for it of late.

driver9000 · 11 Aug 2011

185 said:
My thoughts behind Northern's move to Allerton depot were for more provision of services starting from South Parkway, to say Wigan.

The only extra Northern service to South Parkway is the extension of the Blackpool North service off peak. I don't know of any future expansion plans for the station though.

142094 · 11 Aug 2011

Probably will be more coming seeing as Merseytravel don't want to have egg on their faces with the new flagship station. From what I've heard usage figures were well below what was expected when it was planned.

185 · 11 Aug 2011

142094 said:
Probably will be more coming seeing as Merseytravel don't want to have egg on their faces with the new flagship station. From what I've heard usage figures were well below what was expected when it was planned.

One solution muted was to include bus travel [stn]LPY[/stn] to & from the airport into the station's ticket price, not add-ons rubbish like plusbus.

One plonk on the 82 from Arriva Speke depot tried to tell me a Merseytravel Saveaway wasn't valid as his was an 'airport bus'. Doesn't help with idiots like that about, I reckon he was fiddling his cash fares, which is very common.

pemma · 11 Aug 2011

185 said:
One solution muted was to include bus travel [stn]LPY[/stn] to & from the airport into the station's ticket price, not add-ons rubbish like plusbus.

One plonk on the 82 from Arriva Speke depot tried to tell me a Merseytravel Saveaway wasn't valid as his was an 'airport bus'. Doesn't help with idiots like that about, I reckon he was fiddling his cash fares, which is very common.

When I used a Liverpool Airport bus once I gave the driver the fare and he then handed me a ticket that the previous person hadn't collected and didn't print a new one and the ticket I was handed wasn't even for the right journey.

Some people reported that in the last few months of Arriva running the Route 300: Knutsford Town Circular the drivers were not issuing tickets saying that the machines weren't working. Arriva pulled out of running that route claiming 'poor ticket sales.'

djw1981 · 12 Aug 2011

IanXC said:
Is there a Siemens depot for the 380s?

Yes at Shields in Glasgow

Nym · 12 Aug 2011

So why not stable the units at Manchester International Depot, and do all the maintenance at Glasgow then? Some more 380s could well be ideal in 4 car form.

Breaking: TransPennine Express Franchise Extension

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