Class 458/5 - some details

ChrisCooper said:

Another change not mentioned is that they will be re-geared for 75mph running...

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That decision effectively removes the possibility of use on any mainline services (other than when there's total chaos on the network). A bit like the odd 455s that got to Haslemere...

A few people were clutching at straws a few weeks back and proposing the 460s should be left intact and be used on Portsmouth services... :roll:

Do we know when work is likely to start?

swt_passenger said:

That decision effectively removes the possibility of use on any mainline services (other than when there's total chaos on the network). A bit like the odd 455s that got to Haslemere...

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Which is a good thing if they are going to be reconfigured for suburban working as they will not be suitable for mainline services in terms of passenger comfort and facilities. Should the 455s be 100mph just so SWT could use them to Weymouth if they want?

ChrisCooper said:

Which is a good thing if they are going to be reconfigured for suburban working as they will not be suitable for mainline services in terms of passenger comfort and facilities. Should the 455s be 100mph just so SWT could use them to Weymouth if they want?

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I wasn't suggesting that at all - I was merely confirming that they would not be capable of being used on mainline services, which has been proposed elsewhere on the forum...

Ministry said:

I suppose that depends entirely on what you mean by the term 'enthusiast's rumour'. As stated, the quote has been taken from the SWT website for a current job vacancy they're advertising (http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/job-search.aspx - check the Senior Production Manager Assistant role at Wimbledon depot, Reference number SWT02074).

I can't see why they would say that the role is required for the introduction of 458/5 and 456 units unless they were, in fact, introducing 458/5 and 456 units to the franchise.

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Its been assumed rightly or wrongly that the 456s were going to end up on SWT (Roger Ford - Modern Railways) but there's only 26 of them, so assuming they are coupled to 2 x 4 car 455s thats still only 26 10 car trains (I am not allowing for maintenance spares), there's a commitment for the whole of the SWT 'suburban network' (basically the lines worked by 455s) to become a 10 car railway - platform lengthening etc, then SWT have to find a way of making more 455s up to 10 cars, from a fleet of 91 units, if you assume simply that that's 45 - 8 car combinations, or is it simply that no more than 26 actual peak diagrams will be 10 car?
Anyone in the know on this?
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Surreyman said:

Its been assumed rightly or wrongly that the 456s were going to end up on SWT (Roger Ford - Modern Railways) but there's only 26 of them, so assuming they are coupled to 2 x 4 car 455s thats still only 26 10 car trains (I am not allowing for maintenance spares), there's a commitment for the whole of the SWT 'suburban network' (basically the lines worked by 455s) to become a 10 car railway - platform lengthening etc, then SWT have to find a way of making more 455s up to 10 cars, from a fleet of 91 units, if you assume simply that that's 45 - 8 car combinations, or is it simply that no more than 26 actual peak diagrams will be 10 car?
Anyone in the know on this?

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Oops correction, I should have said only 24 class 456.

Well its said that the coupler and corridor connections were being redesigned to address the 'droop' from the coupler supporting the corridor connections weight and because they were not considered to be reliable enough with the 'vastly increased operational coupling and decoupling' expected.

WatcherZero said:

Well its said that the coupler and corridor connections were being redesigned to address the 'droop' from the coupler supporting the corridor connections weight and because they were not considered to be reliable enough with the 'vastly increased operational coupling and decoupling' expected.

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That's about the 458/5 operated routes mainly, but perhaps you may have hit upon the answer as to where the additional 6 x 458/5s get used?

The limited number of 456s is assumed to affect the bulk of the 455 operated routes. Someone has said in the past that they could be diagrammed carefully so that only peak hour arrivals are 10 car, with shoulder peak arrivals remaining 8 car. How you do that in practice I'll leave to others to explain, but the 455s are on diagrams where they are probably doing up to around two hours out and back from Waterloo, so there could be something in it.

This is the problem you get when they are scrabbling around with second hand solutions that can only ever give them 108 vehicles maximum, whereas the 'fully 10 car inner suburban railway' in the original NR CP4 plans clearly indicated that 140 vehicles being needed.

Perhaps we'll be surprised eventually though and find some 508s in use as well... :roll: