“ Penzance to Paddington train had to reverse along rails after 'mis-routing'”

[43066]

If the train didn't reach the points, why did it have to reverse back to the signal? Is it something to do with the points and the signal being part of the same system and so the points can't just be moved with the train where it was?

Interlocking prevents signallers from changing points once trains are in section. This is to prevent the risk of points moving under trains and derailing them.

 

[sprunt]

Interlocking prevents signallers from changing points once trains are in section. This is to prevent the risk of points moving under trains and derailing them.

That makes sense, thanks.

 

[pompeyfan]

Does the TIN still get split between driver and signaller if there is no previous indication to the driver in this situation? And would the driver still be required for “tea and biscuits” and placed on a support plan? Wrong routing with PRIs and flashing yellows is one thing, but would seem awfully unfair if drivers in this situation are treated the same.

 

[dk1]

Does the TIN still get split between driver and signaller if there is no previous indication to the driver in this situation? And would the driver still be required for “tea and biscuits” and placed on a support plan? Wrong routing with PRIs and flashing yellows is one thing, but would seem awfully unfair if drivers in this situation are treated the same.

Obviously investigations will take place but it sounds like the driver would be exhonorated in situations such as this. Surprised it doesn't happen more often af Cogload.

 

[Neo9320]

Obviously investigations will take place but it sounds like the driver would be exhonorated in situations such as this. Surprised it doesn't happen more often af Cogload.

To be fair at cogload the path is usually set well before the train even reaches Taunton. I think it would be tea and biscuits for the signaller rather than the driver. Anyhow this event doesn’t occur often, and living in Somerset I’ll tell you this is probably the most exciting thing to make the local news at the moment.

 

[dk1]

To be fair at cogload the path is usually set well before the train even reaches Taunton. I think it would be tea and biscuits for the signaller rather than the driver. Anyhow this event doesn’t occur often, and living in Somerset I’ll tell you this is probably the most exciting thing to make the local news at the moment.

I bet the frenzy of inaccurate information from the local media is hilarious to the ear of anyone remotely knowledgeable to railway operations

 

[Deafdoggie]

living in Somerset I’ll tell you this is probably the most exciting thing to make the local news at the moment.

It knocked "man found asleep" to page 2

 

[Neo9320]

I bet the frenzy of inaccurate information from the local media is hilarious to the ear of anyone remotely knowledgeable to railway operations

It’s nice just to hear something that isn’t ’railway closed…again’

It knocked "man found asleep" to page 2

Man found asleep! Now you’ve peaked my interest lol

 

[irish_rail]

Does the TIN still get split between driver and signaller if there is no previous indication to the driver in this situation? And would the driver still be required for “tea and biscuits” and placed on a support plan? Wrong routing with PRIs and flashing yellows is one thing, but would seem awfully unfair if drivers in this situation are treated the same.

No tea and biscuits for the driver, she did everything right and has no case to answer. Was back driving the next day, and infact didn't get taken off on the day of the incident either, as it was immediately apparent that the traincrew did everything correct.

 

[dk1]

No tea and biscuits for the driver, she did everything right and has no case to answer. Was back driving the next day, and infact didn't get taken off on the day of the incident either, as it was immediately apparent that the traincrew did everything correct.

Fabulous to hear, thanks.

 

[Busaholic]

living in Somerset I’ll tell you this is probably the most exciting thing to make the local news at the moment.

Wait til Jacob Rees-Mogg is seen in a pair of Levi's.

 

[LAX54]

I once dragged a 90/DVT intercity set back after an unfortunate wrong routing that the driver didn’t notice. Ironically the route indicator (feather) is for the Thetford line which is actually the straight ahead route. Back in semaphore days that line had the main arm with the lower one for Diss.

I also recall a Central Trains service taking the Ipswich route and returning to Trowse Jcn via the position light. A BBC journalist was on board and reported this to the local media. On BBC Look East that night the presenter ended up with egg on his face after thinking he’d got one coup of a story and making out all the passengers were put in severe danger. Network Rail corrected him and put him in his place time and time again. Made great television.

The Signalman was a the late Mr Polley, he keopt the news report for ages! he was also on when a Central Train was wrong routed towards Diss, and had to be stopped by signals at.......... CO460 ! he did not twig he'd gone the wrong way, but could not bring train back to Norwich, as he didnt know the way
Remember we had a Manager who was not happy at the amount of wrong routes in the box, think there was about 3 in 4 weeks, when he came to the box, I said you do realise there are at least 4000 button presses every day, of those 4000, sometimes one gets pressed that is wrong !

 

[Annetts key]

Out of curiosity, are route signals given far enough in advance (i.e. where the double yellow would be if the signal were red) that a driver could have stopped before the "wrong turn"? If so, is there a reason the driver didn't do this?

The normal practice is only to require approach control / approach release if the speed differential for the lower speed diverging route is significantly lower than the highest speed route.

Hence, if the speed differential is not significantly different, you get a normal aspect sequence that is based only on how many sections are clear ahead for the selected route (as set by the signaller). So a driver could have a sequence of greens on approach and through the junction.

With approach control / approach release, the junction signal is held at red (to slow the speed of the train to a level safe enough for the junction points). As the train approaches the junction signal, it will clear to a proceed aspect (based on how many sections are clear ahead for the selected route).

Flashing yellow(s) replaces the approach control / approach release so that the train driver can control the speed of the train for the junction points, this increases line capacity and reduces the amount of time lost due to unnecessary braking.

Complete layman question from me but just out of curiosity: would a PRI be of use approaching Cogload junction if the speeds are the same / within threshold?

PRI was not a requirement at the time this signalling was designed or installed. Hence it’s not provided. I doubt there is or would be any funds available to pay for any alterations.

If the train didn't reach the points, why did it have to reverse back to the signal? Is it something to do with the points and the signal being part of the same system and so the points can't just be moved with the train where it was?

Interlocking prevents signallers from changing points once trains are in section. This is to prevent the risk of points moving under trains and derailing them.

Exactly. Once the signaller has set the route and the signal has attempted to clear to a proceed aspect (regardless of if it actually showed a valid proceed aspect), the interlocking electrically locks all points in the route that was called, plus any points required for flank protection. If the train stops before the junction signal, the signaller can cancel the route and after a time delay (2 to 6 minutes), the route will release (become free, with the points no longer locked). This feature is called approach locking and is designed to prevent the signaller being able to immediately cancel the route, then be able to move points ahead of a train that may be unable to stop…

However, as soon as the train passes the junction signal (if it is or had been showing a proceed aspect), no matter what the signaller does, the route will stay locked (route locking) to protect the train. The route locking will only release when the train has cleared the section.

If a train has passed the junction signal and has been wrong routed, there are only two options. It can continue in the normal direction. Or it can set back in rear of the junction signal.