“Anytime Advance”

Merseysider

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
22 Jan 2014
Messages
4,430
Location
Birmingham
I can’t see another thread on this, so here goes...

WMT appear to have introduced a new ticket type called “Anytime Advance”. It must be booked before the day of travel but can be used on any WMT service on the date selected.

National Rail Enquiries has this to say...

NRE said:
Temporary Anytime ticket bookable up to the day before travel. Available on a temporary basis until approx July 2020.
London to Liverpool is fifteen quid, Birmingham to Crewe is nine & Stafford to the airport is seven.

Seems like a good idea, but I can’t help but feel the name will cause confusion further down the line.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
4,808
Location
Sheffield
In my view, Anytime Advance is a better name for such a ticket than Advance is for tickets which can be bought up to a few minutes before departure with many operators. 'Train Specific' or 'Non-flexible' would be more helpful names for the latter.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
1,788
Amused by the code C19!

This looks like an extension of the cheapo Airport tickets (https://www.traintoplanesaver.co.uk/) perhaps to try to get ridership up once social distancing is over. July is probably optimistic for that, though!
It's because the timetable keeps changing, so setting up Advance tickets for trains which then get changed / cancelled, is both time consuming and results in customer complaints. The price is the second-lowest tier of normal Advance. When the timetable becomes normal again, they will be discontinued. It hasn't got anything to do with the airport tickets.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
1,788
Yes, railcards will work with the C19 "Anytime Advance". You should be able to buy them from any site - there are no restrictions on sale. But maybe not everywhere has added the ticket type.
 

P Binnersley

Member
Joined
30 Dec 2018
Messages
16
When I've looked Its only been available on the WMT/LNW website.

It does give railcard discount. Mixed messages about being any train vs train specific.
 

D.K.TAYLOR

Member
Joined
28 Apr 2014
Messages
524
When I've looked Its only been available on the WMT/LNW website.

It does give railcard discount. Mixed messages about being any train vs train specific.
You can buy up to 3 days in advance Wolverhampton Liverpool £7-60 single with railcard discount unfortunately the return is less appealing in price
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
5,012
Location
Merseyside
When I've looked Its only been available on the WMT/LNW website.

It does give railcard discount. Mixed messages about being any train vs train specific.
It looks like they are in reality only being sold on certain sites, not all.

You say mixed messages about any train vs train specific, do you mean in terms of acceptance on the ground or just what is being stated on the websites selling them?

Am I right in saying its £10 for a Liverpool to London anytime advance with a railcard?
 

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
9,712
You can buy up to 3 days in advance Wolverhampton Liverpool £7-60 single with railcard discount unfortunately the return is less appealing in price
Do you mean the off peak return ticket, which undiscounted is £39.50 or an advanced price single from Liverpool to Wolverhampton?
 

D.K.TAYLOR

Member
Joined
28 Apr 2014
Messages
524
Do you mean the off peak return ticket, which undiscounted is £39.50 or an advanced price single from Liverpool to Wolverhampton?
The 3 day buy before is £7-60 on the first London North Western to Liverpool from Coseley my local station l checked a return as l only normally buy singles but it isn't anywhere near that
 

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
9,712
The 3 day buy before is £7-60 on the first London North Western to Liverpool from Coseley my local station l checked a return as l only normally buy singles but it isn't anywhere near that
Would you not just buy an advanced single back rather than a return?
 

CrispyUK

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
92
You say mixed messages about any train vs train specific, do you mean in terms of acceptance on the ground or just what is being stated on the websites selling them?
The information displayed by London Northwestern Railway when booking an Anytime Advance fare does introduce a mixed message on whether these are train specific or not.

The 'summary' information displayed when selecting an Anytime Advance fare is as follows:
  • Anytime Advance
  • Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway services and required connecting West Midlands/London Northwestern services.

Compared to the information below when selecting an Advance Single:
  • Specified train only. No refunds.
  • Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway services and required connecting West Midlands/London Northwestern services.

If you click into the Ticket Restrictions which I've quoted below, pretty much all of this suggests Anytime Advance can be used as a flexible fare for any train on the specified date, except for the Route section which states "Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railways services..." which I'm wondering if is just a poor selection of wording, and should simply state that it is valid on WMR/LNR services only. The fact that seating reservations are not mandatory for the Anytime Advance seems to support this.
ANYTIME ADVANCE

DESCRIPTION
Flexible ticket with no time restrictions on when you can travel.

VALIDITY
Your journey must be on the date specified.

BOOKING
Can be booked in advance, up to 3 day before travel.

REFUNDS
If you decide not to use your ticket to make all or part of your intended journey then you can apply for a refund from the My Account pages, or through Customer Support within 28 days of expiry of the ticket. An administration fee of up to GBP 10.00 will apply and the amount of the refund will take into account any use you have made of the ticket and in some circumstances no refund will be paid.

AMENDING YOUR BOOKING
You can change the time of journey without changing your tickets. If you wish to change your date of travel or Class of ticket, you will need to buy a new ticket and apply for a refund on your current ticket.

DISCOUNTS
Yes - normal railcard and child discounts available.

RAILCARDS
Only Senior, Disabled Persons and HM Forces Railcards secure discounts in First Class, and, subject to time restriction, the Two Together Railcard.

BREAK OF JOURNEY
You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel.

Route
Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway services and required connecting West Midlands/London Northwestern services.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,343
The information displayed by London Northwestern Railway when booking an Anytime Advance fare does introduce a mixed message on whether these are train specific or not.

The 'summary' information displayed when selecting an Anytime Advance fare is as follows:



Compared to the information below when selecting an Advance Single:



If you click into the Ticket Restrictions which I've quoted below, pretty much all of this suggests Anytime Advance can be used as a flexible fare for any train on the specified date, except for the Route section which states "Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railways services..." which I'm wondering if is just a poor selection of wording, and should simply state that it is valid on WMR/LNR services only. The fact that seating reservations are not mandatory for the Anytime Advance seems to support this.
The contradiction comes from the fact that the phrase "only valid on booked WMR ..." is simply the long-text/expanded version of the route code on the ticket, which is 00480, i.e. "AP WMR/LNR ONLY" - the same as is used for conventional Advance tickets by WMT.

They probably didn't want to have to introduce a new fare route as well as a new ticket type when they created these fares.

Anytime Advances are definitely valid on any WMR/LNR train on the selected date.
 

CrispyUK

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
92
The contradiction comes from the fact that the phrase "only valid on booked WMR ..." is simply the long-text/expanded version of the route code on the ticket, which is 00480, i.e. "AP WMR/LNR ONLY" - the same as is used for conventional Advance tickets by WMT.

They probably didn't want to have to introduce a new fare route as well as a new ticket type when they created these fares.
Ahh useful to know, thank you for that!

I can understand not wanting to create a new route code, but guess in that case 00042 WMR & LNR ONLY would be a better choice, as the long-text wouldn’t create any confusion.

Assuming there is no technical reason 00042 couldn’t have been used for these, I guess it’s just an oversight on a temporary ticket type that has been quickly implemented. Indeed, if just working with the codes/short text, 00480 AP WMR/LNR ONLY is the most logical fit, with the ticket being valid only via WMR/LNR and needing to be purchased in advance. It could easily have been overlooked when setting them up that “only valid on booked [...] services” would be displayed on booking engines in the long text :)
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,343
Ahh useful to know, thank you for that!

I can understand not wanting to create a new route code, but guess in that case 00042 WMR & LNR ONLY would be a better choice, as the long-text wouldn’t create any confusion.

Assuming there is no technical reason 00042 couldn’t have been used for these, I guess it’s just an oversight on a temporary ticket type that has been quickly implemented. Indeed, if just working with the codes/short text, 00480 AP WMR/LNR ONLY is the most logical fit, with the ticket being valid only via WMR/LNR and needing to be purchased in advance. It could easily have been overlooked when setting them up that “only valid on booked [...] services” would be displayed on booking engines in the long text :)
I suspect it's because route codes can add additional electronic restrictions that [time] restriction codes (e.g. WB here) can't, thereby letting the fare setter control the sale of the fares more easily. Or, more likely, that they simply didn't consider this possibility as you state.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
1,364
Trying to book a ticket from Birmingham to Stoke-on-Trent at the end of August. There are both are both XC and LNWR services available. Both TOCs have Anytime Day Singles available. CrossCountry additionally have Advance Singles (tied to a particular train and no refunds)

However, LNWR don't have Advance Singles. Instead they have something called an Anytime Advance (in addition to an Anytime Day Single) with the following conditions:
Anytime Advance
Only valid on booked West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway services and required connecting West Midlands/London Northwestern services.


You can travel from:
Birmingham New St, Moor St or Snow Hill

You can travel to:
Stoke on Trent
To me "Anytime Advance" sounds like a contradiction in terms because the entire point of an advance is the requirement to travel at a specific time.

Can someone explain this for me?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
22,721
Explained here I think:
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
1,364
Explained here I think:
Yes, thanks
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,343
me "Anytime Advance" sounds like a contradiction in terms because the entire point of an advance is the requirement to travel at a specific time.
That is the modern meaning of "Advance" in UK rail ticketing terms, but back when these tickets were known as Apex tickets, the main requirement was booking in advance - there was not always a requirement to travel on a specific train.

So it's a contradiction in modern terms but not in the original sense of the word.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
1,364
That is the modern meaning of "Advance" in UK rail ticketing terms, but back when these tickets were known as Apex tickets, the main requirement was booking in advance - there was not always a requirement to travel on a specific train.

So it's a contradiction in modern terms but not in the original sense of the word.
I know, that's what I meant. More generally, "in advance" just means "beforehand."
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,343
I know, that's what I meant. More generally, "in advance" just means "beforehand."
Yes, what I mean is that it is only a contradiction in terms if you compare it to the modern UK rail definition of "Advance". It's not a contradiction in terms to have a ticket that can be used at any time but that must be bought in advance.
 

Merseysider

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
22 Jan 2014
Messages
4,430
Location
Birmingham
These were at one point (accidentally?) bookable the day before travel but it now seems that all websites which retail them are only selling 3 days or more in advance.
 

P Binnersley

Member
Joined
30 Dec 2018
Messages
16
:'(
Anytime-Advance.jpg
- Only booked train.
- Flexible ticket with no time restrictions.
What could be clearer.:'(

Used one a week ago, no ticket checks the barrier at Euston was open.
The pdf file said ANYTIME (C-19 ADV)
The same ticket on my phone said "Booked Train Only"!
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
1,364
- Only booked train.
- Flexible ticket with no time restrictions.
What could be clearer.:'(
Sorry if this is me being thick; it's reasonably late now - but that isn't clear to me at all. "Booked train only" seems to contradict "Flexible ticket with no time restrictions"

Edit: D'oh! Failed to detect sarcasm!
 
Last edited:

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
7,737
:'(
View attachment 81435
- Only booked train.
- Flexible ticket with no time restrictions.
What could be clearer.:'(

Used one a week ago, no ticket checks the barrier at Euston was open.
The pdf file said ANYTIME (C-19 ADV)
The same ticket on my phone said "Booked Train Only"!
My interpretation of "only booked LNWR/WMT services" is "only valid on services scheduled to be operated by LNWR/WMT"

But I agree, hardly clear!
 

Top