1970's Red Bus Rovers, Long journey opportunites

[Mike99]

Just reminiscing today, as we all do at a certain age and beyond, like many on here I used Red Rovers a lot especially at weekends and Bank Holidays and school holidays, I was 12 in 1970, living in Penge, South London and I virtually lived on the 12's (and eventually in 1976 being a Conductor out of ED and then a driver in 1979, but I digress a little).
It was always great to be able to travel on a Red Rover from so far afield with just one change of route to get back home or to set off for a days travel, (often on Sundays and to the exclusion of timetable quirks), most options centred around a connection into the 12 route, and, for example Becontree Heath to Penge via Route 25 with a change at Oxford Circus, or Staines (117) and Uxbridge (207) changing at Shepherds Bush Green; Edgware Station (113) via Oxford Circus, Hounslow with 3 options, (37, 73Su 117) via Peckham, Shepherds Bush or Oxford Street. North Finchley(2B) via either Marble Arch and the 12,or Crystal Palace and then the 227. And stretching the one change option, (M-Sat) 69 from Chingford Station to North Woolwich, walk through the tunnel to get the 75 back home.
Happy days and all for a few pence and a packet of sandwiches………..

 

[Busaholic]

Just reminiscing today, as we all do at a certain age and beyond, like many on here I used Red Rovers a lot especially at weekends and Bank Holidays and school holidays, I was 12 in 1970, living in Penge, South London and I virtually lived on the 12's (and eventually in 1976 being a Conductor out of ED and then a driver in 1979, but I digress a little).
It was always great to be able to travel on a Red Rover from so far afield with just one change of route to get back home or to set off for a days travel, (often on Sundays and to the exclusion of timetable quirks), most options centred around a connection into the 12 route, and, for example Becontree Heath to Penge via Route 25 with a change at Oxford Circus, or Staines (117) and Uxbridge (207) changing at Shepherds Bush Green; Edgware Station (113) via Oxford Circus, Hounslow with 3 options, (37, 73Su 117) via Peckham, Shepherds Bush or Oxford Street. North Finchley(2B) via either Marble Arch and the 12,or Crystal Palace and then the 227. And stretching the one change option, (M-Sat) 69 from Chingford Station to North Woolwich, walk through the tunnel to get the 75 back home.
Happy days and all for a few pence and a packet of sandwiches………..

Happy memories indeed! I wasn't allowed Sunday travel on my own, and my age 12 occurred in 1960, but a lot of my trips from Eltham involved the Woolwich to North Woolwich crossing, or the 108A through the Blackwall Tunnel. I tended to change buses more often than you, but I did make some quite long journeys at times e.g. West Croydon to Harlesden on the 220, or Victoria to Chingford, Royal Forest Hotel on the 38. Trolleybuses also featured for a very short time, and I've always regretted that shortness.

 

[Com166]

Ah yes happy days . I am a little older but did the same .Staines 90 to Richmond then 73 to Stoke Newington

 

[packermac]

Yes opportunity for a great day out although I always preferred Twin Rovers. The end of steam saw a drift towards aviation (my ultimate career) and you could cover so much more of Greater London with the tube thrown in the mix.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes opportunity for a great day out although I always preferred Twin Rovers. The end of steam saw a drift towards aviation (my ultimate career) and you could cover so much more of Greater London with the tube thrown in the mix.

Depends where you lived! If I'd lived in Feltham, rather than Eltham, I'd have used them a lot more, but always having to start your Underground journeys at New Cross (East London line, train every 20 minutes on a Saturday) and change at Whitechapel, and do either that twice in the day or have a longer journey from London Bridge, say, at one end, meant the cheaper Red Rover (cost always being an issue) suited me more.

 

[MotCO]

One draw back was only being able to buy them at Underground Stations or bus garages (there aren't that many in SW London!). That did change later, so that newsagents also sold them (or was it the other way round?).

I preferred Golden Rovers - I could catch a 715 which would take me right over to the other side of London, then catch a bus to take me west, to pick up a 727 back to Kingston, and then home.

 

[PeterC]

On a Red Rover I certainly did nearly the width of the Central area from Romford to Uxbridge and my bus spotting friends and I would regularly to as far as the AEC factory to get the latest Routemasters. The one that sticks in the memory was Romford to St Albans taking the 84 all the way from the Crooked Billet.

Green Rovers tended to be to the south rather than pay an extra fare to bridge the gap between the 370 at Romford and the 339 at Brentwood. I certainly managed Romford to Tunbridge Wells which did involve an extra fare. Managed longer trips when my parents visited friends in Crawley as I could finish there for a lift home. Being in a GS going flat out down the Dartford Tunnel Approach was one of my more interesting bus spotting experiences.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

North Wales still have their own "Red Rover", which is £6.80 last time I checked (wish I knew about it when I lived there) and valid on pretty much every bus (all participating operators) in Gwynedd and Anglesey, as well as a bit of Conwy as far east as Llandudno, but the real value would be its validity on the FULL T2 and T3 routes, so you could go all the way to Aberystwyth and even Wrexham (connect at Dolgellau) on the routes respectively!

 

[AM9]

In my youth, I had several days out on (half) Twin Rovers, - 4s 3d was affordable on pocket money. Whilst travelling what was for me uncharted territory on the Underground I went to Cockfosters on the Piccadilly and travelled back to central London on the route 29 - I can't remember whether it was to Victoria or not. I also travelled on the route 25 from Ilford to Victoria, and the 38 from somewhere south of the river to Walthamstow.
Travelling long distance in those days was a bit haphazard even in the late '50s but nowhere near as bad as now.
Locally, medium length journeys comprised the Route 62 which starting from York Road Ilford then via Barkingside (Maypole where there was a turning bay), Hainault, Whalebone Lane, Chadwell Heath, Barking and then back north to Little Heath. Quite a circuitous route, about 17 miles and taking 1 Hr 20 Mins.
All of the above was on RTs including RTLs and RTWs, - the real London bus!

 

[Wirewiper]

I grew up in Wealdstone, near Harrow. I travelled all the way to such exotic places as New Addington and Dartford and back in a day by bus. A regular trip was to take the 186 to Edgware, a long ride on the 221 to Wood Green, an even longer ride on the 123 to Gants Hill and finish off with the 66 to Romford. Then four hours exploring Havering routes and the same in reverse.

 

[PeterC]

In my youth, I had several days out on (half) Twin Rovers, - 4s 3d was affordable on pocket money. Whilst travelling what was for me uncharted territory on the Underground I went to Cockfosters on the Piccadilly and travelled back to central London on the route 29 - I can't remember whether it was to Victoria or not. I also travelled on the route 25 from Ilford to Victoria, and the 38 from somewhere south of the river to Walthamstow.
Travelling long distance in those days was a bit haphazard even in the late '50s but nowhere near as bad as now.
Locally, medium length journeys comprised the Route 62 which starting from York Road Ilford then via Barkingside (Maypole where there was a turning bay), Hainault, Whalebone Lane, Chadwell Heath, Barking and then back north to Little Heath. Quite a circuitous route, about 17 miles and taking 1 Hr 20 Mins.
All of the above was on RTs including RTLs and RTWs, - the real London bus!

I used Twin Rovers once or twice but as the object of the exercise was usually bus spotting that did rather reduce the opportunities for collecting numbers. I do remember taking one or two rather sub-optimal journeys. Usually jumping on a bus because it was going to a place that connected with a bus home. Once my cousin and I had a fascinating tour of the Isle of Dogs on a bus from Poplar to Limehouse to get an 86 home. It was one of my first Red Rovers and I didn't have a bus map with me. I can't remember why we had to do this, either I didn't realise that the 175 stop was close by or it was a Sunday and I didn't know that that section of the route was Monday to Saturday only. We were very late for tea and I usually made a point of taking a bus map on later journeys.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is an interesting thread (though I'm a Northerner - and I don't mean High Barnet).

Just out of curiosity, what sort of age were you being entrusted to travel around London, and did you have to go with a brother/cousin/friend/responsible adult etc?

 

[Mike99]

This is an interesting thread (though I'm a Northerner - and I don't mean High Barnet).

Just out of curiosity, what sort of age were you being entrusted to travel around London, and did you have to go with a brother/cousin/friend/responsible adult etc?

I was allowed from about 12 years old, (2nd year at senior school) but it was pretty much a safe environment because most of us were permanently on a bus so pretty much safe. I always had to be home for my tea at 5.00 but I would woof it down and be back out, often I would get a 12 back to Penge , nip indoors eat my tea, and manage to get the same vehicle (different crew, the bus would have been to Norwood Junction and back) back to the West End for a bit more bashing around the West End and City, before the inevitable no 12 back home. Weekends for some reason I could stay out all day!! I was a Milk Boy but even using a Red Rover after I finished gave many hours of travelling all over the place.

I'm chuffed that there is plenty of input to the thread all of it just indulging in days gone past.

 

[Mike99]

I grew up in Wealdstone, near Harrow. I travelled all the way to such exotic places as New Addington and Dartford and back in a day by bus. A regular trip was to take the 186 to Edgware, a long ride on the 221 to Wood Green, an even longer ride on the 123 to Gants Hill and finish off with the 66 to Romford. Then four hours exploring Havering routes and the same in reverse.

Naively back in those days I didn't think of other enthusiasts doing the same as me, and your example of travelling all the way from your area to New Addington, not far from me via Croydon, is no different from me going from Penge over to Watford, Stanmore, Uxbridge etc. It just never dawned on me............…...

 

[Wirewiper]

This is an interesting thread (though I'm a Northerner - and I don't mean High Barnet).

Just out of curiosity, what sort of age were you being entrusted to travel around London, and did you have to go with a brother/cousin/friend/responsible adult etc?

It was from age 12 for me, and I always went alone. This was the 1970s.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My folks were ok with me heading the 12 miles to the nearest big town on my own from 11/12. From the age of 14 (mid 1980s), I was trusted to head off with an NBC Explorer reaching Berwick, Carlisle, Leeds or Hull.

This is perhaps the irony. You wouldn't be allowed to do so nowadays because of the perceived risk of a paedophile on every corner, whereas in the 1970s/1980s, the risk was arguably higher. The risk to health nowadays is traffic!

 

[Wirewiper]

Naively back in those days I didn't think of other enthusiasts doing the same as me, and your example of travelling all the way from your area to New Addington, not far from me via Croydon, is no different from me going from Penge over to Watford, Stanmore, Uxbridge etc. It just never dawned on me............…...

Yes, I was doing just what you were doing, but in the opposite direction!

I wonder if any Havering-based enthusiasts used to make their way over to Harrow?

When I was flush I used to do the odd Golden Rover too, catch the Green Line from Stanmore Broadway and do large circuits of Hertfordshire. Or occasionally I would head southwards, I even got to Horsham once.

 

[Statto]

One draw back was only being able to buy them at Underground Stations or bus garages (there aren't that many in SW London!). That did change later, so that newsagents also sold them (or was it the other way round?).

I preferred Golden Rovers - I could catch a 715 which would take me right over to the other side of London, then catch a bus to take me west, to pick up a 727 back to Kingston, and then home.

Golden Rovers were the ones that you could use on the whole Greenline network weren't they?

 

[Wirewiper]

Golden Rovers were the ones that you could use on the whole Greenline network weren't they?

They were, the whole Green Line and Country Bus network although they were not accepted on the 727 until the early 1970s if I recall correctly.

I remember when London Country and United Counties began a joint service between Luton and Stevenage (44) following the collapse of the independent operator Court Line - Green and Golden Rovers were not issued on UCOC journeys but were valid for travel on them. When I got on a UCOC Bristol RE with a Golden Rover the driver looked bemused, studied it thoroughly - then confessed that he had never seen one before!

 

[PeterC]

It was from age 12 for me, and I always went alone. This was the 1970s.

For me it was 12 with my 14 year old cousin. As he lived in Wales I was the one who planned the trips, although these were pretty random at first. From 13 it was with friends of the same age or on my own. There was a crowd of bus spotters in the third and fourth forms so we often went as a group.

 

[MotCO]

following the collapse of the independent operator Court Line

Was this operator in any way related to the airline of the same name which also collapsed (at the sametime?). Going completely OT, if I recall, Court Line painted their planes in different shades of a single pastel colour, each plane a different colour.

 

[Busaholic]

This is an interesting thread (though I'm a Northerner - and I don't mean High Barnet).

Just out of curiosity, what sort of age were you being entrusted to travel around London, and did you have to go with a brother/cousin/friend/responsible adult etc?

Always on my own, and from when Red Rovers first became available, so aged 11 or 12, though I was venturing to Poplar from Eltham at 10 or 11. The interesting(?) thing about this was that I wasn't allowed a bike before secondary school because my beloved older brother had died young (nothing to do with bikes) and my parents couldn't have coped with another death, so I was left to the safety of public transport!

 

[RT4038]

They were, the whole Green Line and Country Bus network although they were not accepted on the 727 until the early 1970s if I recall correctly.

I remember when London Country and United Counties began a joint service between Luton and Stevenage (44) following the collapse of the independent operator Court Line - Green and Golden Rovers were not issued on UCOC journeys but were valid for travel on them. When I got on a UCOC Bristol RE with a Golden Rover the driver looked bemused, studied it thoroughly - then confessed that he had never seen one before!

I don't think this is quite right ...... the independent that had failed was Jey-son coaches, this being some time after the Court Line collapse. Their service was originally taken over by London Country only (365 Luton-Kimpton) and then the 44 joint operation was started. The origins of the Jey-son roue were with Birch Bros. no. 205

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Always on my own, and from when Red Rovers first became available, so aged 11 or 12, though I was venturing to Poplar from Eltham at 10 or 11. The interesting(?) thing about this was that I wasn't allowed a bike before secondary school because my beloved older brother had died young (nothing to do with bikes) and my parents couldn't have coped with another death, so I was left to the safety of public transport!

It is curious how your parents weighed up the respective risks. Perhaps the fact that buses were crew operated might also have influenced their decision?

It's a bug that has never really left me; I still go off a few times a year with some sort of day ticket. The journey options are more sparse and I've gone through a few generations of buses... I reckon about 5 up to the present day.

 

[Busaholic]

It is curious how your parents weighed up the respective risks. Perhaps the fact that buses were crew operated might also have influenced their decision?

It's a bug that has never really left me; I still go off a few times a year with some sort of day ticket. The journey options are more sparse and I've gone through a few generations of buses... I reckon about 5 up to the present day.

Don't want to get too personal, but my brother's death had ramifications that were very far-reaching, and I could easily have gone off the rails. I threw myself into solitary occupations ,could read well at the age of three and became obsessed with London bus maps and timetables, and was always aware of exactly where I was, even if I'd never been there before. My parents had two other children, both younger, to deal with and my mother became gradually crippled with arthritis from her late 20s, so it was probably easier to placate me to an extent.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't want to get too personal, but my brother's death had ramifications that were very far-reaching, and I could easily have gone off the rails. I threw myself into solitary occupations ,could read well at the age of three and became obsessed with London bus maps and timetables, and was always aware of exactly where I was, even if I'd never been there before. My parents had two other children, both younger, to deal with and my mother became gradually crippled with arthritis from her late 20s, so it was probably easier to placate me to an extent.

Without the particular personal experiences of your family, I can appreciate that view (in part at least). Being brought up as a drivers' son and being au fait with buses, reading timetables, etc, my parents were probably reassured of my abilities to get around and be safe.

 

[Busaholic]

Without the particular personal experiences of your family, I can appreciate that view (in part at least). Being brought up as a drivers' son and being au fait with buses, reading timetables, etc, my parents were probably reassured of my abilities to get around and be safe.

There were only two occasions when I was aware in any untoward interest towards me. One was on a 44 bus near London Bridge on late Christmas Eve afternoon, sitting front offside upper deck seat: on a near empty bus, a guy came and sat next to me. I made sure my bag remained between me and him, and nothing happened. He reeked of drink, and I realised it was a bad day to be travelling. On the other occasion, just after trolleybuses had been withdrawn at North Woolwich, a middle-aged guy told me that trolleybuses were still running on the other side of the river, which I knew well was a lie, and he'd take me for a trip on them. I murmured something, made sure I kept the ever-present inspector at NW in sight, and watched him disappear into the foot tunnel. I then resolved to go back on the ferry, and didn't see him again. Neither incident got mentioned to my parents.