1V59 1403 Manchester Piccadilly to Paignton

[henryb]

Today - the train went directly through Birmingham instead of reversing and used a line not marked as a regular line on Apple Maps that had a large number of stations under construction, what was this?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Sounds like the Camp Hill line

[EDIT] Yes, just checked RTT and it went that way. Link below has the detail

Realtime Trains | 1V59 1403 Manchester Piccadilly to Paignton | 28/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 1V59 1403 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Paignton on 28/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[jfollows]

Quite a few Manchester-Bristol services are booked to go this way.
In the past reversal at New Street was an advantage because there was an engine change there as well, but now it’s just a diesel all the way it’s sometimes helpful to go this way.

 

[Starmill]

At a guess Apple Maps only marks out the lines it thinks it can see trains running over or something? Google Maps tries to do this too and it's often very unsuccessful. For example it shows an underground line between Belfast Lanyon Place and Belfast Grand Central which is marked as Irish Rail Intercity.

 

[Pokelet]

Quite a few Manchester-Bristol services are booked to go this way.
In the past reversal at New Street was an advantage because there was an engine change there as well, but now it’s just a diesel all the way it’s sometimes helpful to go this way.

It was mentioned on here ages ago that north bound XC can be offered and accept Camp Hill as a diversion even if they aren't booked that way as the journey times are similar and it avoids any congestion with the Cross City.

 

[edwin_m]

It was mentioned on here ages ago that north bound XC can be offered and accept Camp Hill as a diversion even if they aren't booked that way as the journey times are similar and it avoids any congestion with the Cross City.

I presume this is only the Voyagers, as the 170s stop at University.

 

[jfollows]

Sectional Appendix, quoted in https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bristol-manchester-service.264857/#post-6696384

MD306 - BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET TO ASHCHURCH (EXCL.) (VIA DUNHAMPSTEAD)
KINGS NORTON To BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET
Up direction CrossCountry services booked to run between Kings Norton and Birmingham New Street, either via Selly Oak or via Lifford East Junction and Bordesley Junction, may be diverted accordingly without warning. Drivers so routed need not observe the second sentence of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2.
Dated: 21/10/2017

 

[henryb]

It was mentioned on here ages ago that north bound XC can be offered and accept Camp Hill as a diversion even if they aren't booked that way as the journey times are similar and it avoids any congestion with the Cross City.

Does it apply to Southbound also?

 

[jfollows]

Does it apply to Southbound also?

How can it?
The driver of a southbound train can be told at Birmingham New Street to go the other way, but the instruction is about being given a different route to the booked route in the middle of a journey, and not having to stop and ask why.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Does it apply to Southbound also?

Southbound the two routes leave New Street in opposite directions so clearly the decision can’t be communicated to the driver “on the fly” via a feather on a signal

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Does the same apply to routes between New Street and Wolverhampton out of interest?

 

[jfollows]

Does the same apply to routes between New Street and Wolverhampton out of interest?

Not really, but (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blo...ern (South) Sectional Appendix March 2025.pdf)

MD301 - RUGBY TO PENKRIDGE (EXCLUSIVE) (VIA BIRMINGHAM)
BIRMINGHAM NEW ST To Bushbury Jn
Down and Up Virgin or CrossCountry services not booked to stop at Wolverhampton may be diverted without warning from Soho South Junction via Soho East Junction, Perry Barr North Junction, Portobello Junction to Bushbury Junction and vice versa. Drivers so routed need not observe the second sentence of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2.
Dated: 07/12/13

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Not really, but (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs March 25/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix March 2025.pdf)

Thanks. That surprises me somewhat, as Crane St Jn to Soho South Jn via Bescot would seem a very logical second choice route to bring you into New Street at the correct end, or via Aston to run in the opposite end.

 

[Starmill]

It may be a little bit of a relic because it's only really during engineering works there are trains not booked to call at Wolverhampton nowadays. Or maybe it's aimed at trains that run during engineering works.

 

[JRT]

The Camp Hill line.
I vaguely remember a few years ago CrossCountry were planning to run most services (all Manchester Piccadilly – Bristol Temple Meads trains I presume) via this route.
The local transport authority are also planning new services along this route

 

[The Planner]

The Camp Hill line.
I vaguely remember a few years ago CrossCountry were planning to run most services (all Manchester Piccadilly – Bristol Temple Meads trains I presume) via this route.
The local transport authority are also planning new services along this route

They have been doing that with the vast majoirty of Bristol Manchester services for a while now. The Camp Hill stations are being built and a number of years late.

 

[jfollows]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...2/0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=passenger&order=wtt will show passenger services - 24 of them - booked over Camp Hill today

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It may be a little bit of a relic because it's only really during engineering works there are trains not booked to call at Wolverhampton nowadays. Or maybe it's aimed at trains that run during engineering works.

It does sound like the latter. In the past (particularly at weekends) it seemed to be a lottery which route would be taken from Wolves to New Street, I can’t imagine every service via Bescot was being instructed during the Wolverhampton stop. Of course some workings were booked the ‘long way round’ to avoid having to run the loco round the stock at New Street, the up Holyheads were a good example of this.