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24 hour train service - with buses during small hours

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jon0844

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Inspired by this thread, I thought I'd start a new one about 24 hour train services on lines that themselves couldn't actually accommodate them.

In that thread, it was clear that many late night and early morning trains are very busy. And those people on the late trains may not have travelled if they didn't exist.

But what about after around 1200-0100 when most services end, and until 0400-0500 when they start again (in the week at least, add an hour or two on a Sunday)?

Has any TOC ever considered running buses to offer a 24 hour service when trains can't run, due to overnight possessions?

And if not a TOC, then the DfT?

I can already imagine all the reasons not to run them, but how many are just excuses? And wouldn't there be many benefits for doing so? For shift workers, for those who want to stay out that bit later, for those who have a particularly early start (for a flight etc) and so on?

The numbers may be low, but how many people would otherwise not travel at all (driving, getting a taxi etc) and wouldn't that just mean you could run an hourly bus without much fear of overcrowding (and if that becomes an issue, what's the problem? You've now got the demand you wanted).

Ideally we'd seek to run trains through the night, but I doubt that's possible for a lot of places so this seems like an idea that could at least be trialled somewhere - but probably only if the DfT wanted to make it so.
 
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jon0844

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JamesRowden

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I was thinking more about trains heading out of London, Birmingham etc, than an airport to the coast - especially given Gatwick has a near 24 hour service.

Is that enough to prove such an idea isn't workable? (Maybe it is, but I am not convinced).

I gave it as an example of such an idea being implemented rather than evidence as to whether the idea generally works or not.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Thames Trains and the Oxford Bus Company (both owned by Go-Ahead) used to allow train ticket holders to return from London to Oxford on the 24-hour X90 coach service. The arrangement no longer exists.

GWR do run one permanent night bus service though - the 23.41 SO from Oxford to Banbury.
 

Spartacus

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Back in Northern Spirit days the overnight Yor- Manchester Airports used to be booked to call at Dewsbury, with rail replacement to Dewsbury during engineering works. Arriva often dispensed with the bus, offering a taxi to those who wanted it, though not advertising it apparently resulted in a number of complaints. When they were confronted about it they dropped the Dewsbury stop entirely!
 

Bletchleyite

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The 0200 from Euston on a Saturday night/Sunday morning has been a permanent bustitution in some form (either from Watford or throughout) for at least 10 years.
 

Shimbleshanks

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Inspired by this thread, I thought I'd start a new one about 24 hour train services on lines that themselves couldn't actually accommodate them.

In that thread, it was clear that many late night and early morning trains are very busy. And those people on the late trains may not have travelled if they didn't exist.

But what about after around 1200-0100 when most services end, and until 0400-0500 when they start again (in the week at least, add an hour or two on a Sunday)?

Has any TOC ever considered running buses to offer a 24 hour service when trains can't run, due to overnight possessions?

And if not a TOC, then the DfT?

I can already imagine all the reasons not to run them, but how many are just excuses? And wouldn't there be many benefits for doing so? For shift workers, for those who want to stay out that bit later, for those who have a particularly early start (for a flight etc) and so on?

The numbers may be low, but how many people would otherwise not travel at all (driving, getting a taxi etc) and wouldn't that just mean you could run an hourly bus without much fear of overcrowding (and if that becomes an issue, what's the problem? You've now got the demand you wanted).

Ideally we'd seek to run trains through the night, but I doubt that's possible for a lot of places so this seems like an idea that could at least be trialled somewhere - but probably only if the DfT wanted to make it so.

There was a night bus version of the London Underground Northern Line that was advertised as exactly that on posters at tube stations. (This was before th Friday/Saturday night tube.) I belive it had similar stops to the Northern Line, though being a south Londoner I never had the 'pleasure' of using it myself.
Not sure that has happened to it since - there is an N20 night bus but it's not advertised as a 'tube' service in any way.
 

W-on-Sea

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There was a night bus version of the London Underground Northern Line that was advertised as exactly that on posters at tube stations. (This was before th Friday/Saturday night tube.) I belive it had similar stops to the Northern Line, though being a south Londoner I never had the 'pleasure' of using it myself.
Not sure that has happened to it since - there is an N20 night bus but it's not advertised as a 'tube' service in any way.

Yeah, there were two - the N20 covered the High Barnet branch (more or less), and the N5 covered the Edgware branch. I have a feeling the N155 in south London might have been branded in a similar way. They all still run, but have been reduced in frequency since the Night Tube started. One problem with the N5 is that the route the Northern Line takes to get to Edgware from the West End is hardly direct, and there are other night bus routes that take a quicker route between central London and several of the neighbourhoods served by stations on the branch (which is presumably the main flow of passengers).
 

Busaholic

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Yeah, there were two - the N20 covered the High Barnet branch (more or less), and the N5 covered the Edgware branch. I have a feeling the N155 in south London might have been branded in a similar way. They all still run, but have been reduced in frequency since the Night Tube started. One problem with the N5 is that the route the Northern Line takes to get to Edgware from the West End is hardly direct, and there are other night bus routes that take a quicker route between central London and several of the neighbourhoods served by stations on the branch (which is presumably the main flow of passengers).

Just to make clear, although the N5 and N20 have suffered frequency reductions on Friday and Saturday nights (particularly drastic in the case of the N20) the N155 has had that now very rare thing = a frequency increase on those nights. Such a thing may never occur again! It is, I believe, now the most frequent of the N-prefixed night routes on those nights, though I stand to be corrected.
 
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