30% hike in South Western Railway tickets 3 December

[skintcommuter]

Dear forum members

I'm posting for the first time to get your advice. I commute from London Waterloo to Egham twice or three times a week. Up to 3 December 2023, an anytime day return ticket cost £17.70 (outward from London, return from Egham). Since 3 December it has cost £23.00. This is a 30% increase in ticket prices and I now will really struggle to afford the commute.

Compare https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WAT&dest=EGH&period=20231001 and https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WAT&dest=EGH&period=20231203 (links showing price of ticket before and after 3 December).

I thought train fares are regulated? How are SWR able to make such huge increases at a time other than the annual ticket price increase? Is there any way to appeal against this increase, which is a huge penalty on those trying to commute to work during a cost of living crisis? Or can members suggest a cheaper way to make this train journey?

Any advice would be welcomed.

 

[Watershed]

Dear forum members

I'm posting for the first time to get your advice. I commute from London Waterloo to Egham twice or three times a week. Up to 3 December 2023, an anytime day return ticket cost £17.70 (outward from London, return from Egham). Since 3 December it has cost £23.00. This is a 30% increase in ticket prices and I now will really struggle to afford the commute.

Compare https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WAT&dest=EGH&period=20231001 and https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WAT&dest=EGH&period=20231203 (links showing price of ticket before and after 3 December).

I thought train fares are regulated? How are SWR able to make such huge increases at a time other than the annual ticket price increase? Is there any way to appeal against this increase, which is a huge penalty on those trying to commute to work during a cost of living crisis? Or can members suggest a cheaper way to make this train journey?

Any advice would be welcomed.

The reason for the significant increase is the standardisation of fares as part of Project Oval, which is a program to expand the range of stations in the southeast where contactless PAYG can be used.

Previously you benefitted from a "contra-peak" Anytime fare that was cheaper than the equivalent fare in the "peak" direction (towards London). Unfortunately, since under Project Oval the principle is that single fares are half of a return, this fare has had to be increased to avoid an anomaly arising - otherwise people commuting from Egham to Waterloo would be charged less for their evening peak return journey from Waterloo than their morning peak journey towards Waterloo.

It's clearly yet another unfair side effect of the changes, and as a minimum you'd hope that Off-Peak restrictions would be eased in the contra-peak direction - as is the case on the line from London Euston to Watford High Street, for example.

Unfortunately there is no real route for 'appeal' - whilst you're correct that Anytime fares for short journeys such as these are generally regulated, the government is behind the Project Oval changes and so will undoubtedly have given permission for all of the required changes to regulated fares.

You're effectively limited to raising the matter with your MP or London Assembly Member, but unfortunately I fear the response may amount to 'you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs'.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm posting for the first time to get your advice. I commute from London Waterloo to Egham twice or three times a week. Up to 3 December 2023, an anytime day return ticket cost £17.70 (outward from London, return from Egham). Since 3 December it has cost £23.00. This is a 30% increase in ticket prices and I now will really struggle to afford the commute.

You now need to buy a anytime day single heading west in the morning for £11.50, and an off-peak day single in the afternoon for £7.90. That should total £19.40.

There is no afternoon restriction heading back into London on this ticket.

Unfortunately, this is still quite a large increase from £17.70, but not 30%.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Assuming contactless is an option, would the system treat the journeys as two singles (one peak, return off-peak) or charge the anytime return fare?

 

[Watershed]

You now need to buy a anytime day single heading west in the morning for £11.50, and an off-peak day single in the afternoon for £7.90. That should total £19.40.

There is no afternoon restriction heading back into London on this ticket.

Unfortunately, this is still quite a large increase from £17.70, but not 30%.

Of course that alternative will be of limited use if the OP currently relies on a 16-25, 26-30 or other equivalent Railcard with a £12 minimum fare.

Assuming contactless is an option, would the system treat the journeys as two singles (one peak, return off-peak) or charge the anytime return fare?

Each journey will be assessed individually by the back office system, subject to the daily and weekly cap, once contactless is rolled out to Egham (next spring, in theory). Charging a mixture of peak and off-peak fares is very much part of how this is designed to work.

 

[JonathanH]

Of course that alternative will be of limited use if the OP currently relies on a 16-25, 26-30 or other equivalent Railcard with a £12 minimum fare.

Yes, but they don't appear to, so the information is helpful in this case. They referred to a £23 fare.

 

[Watershed]

Yes, but they don't appear to, so the information is helpful in this case. They referred to a £23 fare.

Absolutely; some people do refer to undiscounted fares when making comparisons though, so I just mentioned it in case that applied.

 

[Haywain]

Assuming contactless is an option, would the system treat the journeys as two singles (one peak, return off-peak) or charge the anytime return fare?

Whilst true contactless isn't an option yet, SWR's Tap2Go product should yield the same results now for a journey that doesn't venture onto TfL services.

 

[skintcommuter]

Absolutely; some people do refer to undiscounted fares when making comparisons though, so I just mentioned it in case that applied.

Thank you for your very helpful replies explaining the situation. I am not eligible for a railcard when making this journey. It does seem as if the opportunity has been used to seriously disadvantage contra-peak commuters. However, I'll get 2 single fares in future - thanks for the recommendation.

Whilst true contactless isn't an option yet, SWR's Tap2Go product should yield the same results now for a journey that doesn't venture onto TfL services.

Thank you for recommending Tap2Go. Does anyone have experience of whether this reliably calculates the total fare each day? I have heard bad reports of other pay-as-you-go cards on National Rail (e.g. GTR's KeyGo) failing to accurately calculate the fare for a journey taken, particularly if there are breaks of journey etc. At least with a paper ticket you know what you have paid and what it is valid for, without having to check your account afterwards.

 

[Haywain]

I use KeyGo and have no problem with what I am being charged, other than one occasion where I would have saved by buying a paper ticket for a longer journey than I actually made. However, I accept that it's for me to know about such discrepancies rather than GTR to calculate them.

 

[MrJeeves]

Thank you for recommending Tap2Go. Does anyone have experience of whether this reliably calculates the total fare each day? I have heard bad reports of other pay-as-you-go cards on National Rail (e.g. GTR's KeyGo) failing to accurately calculate the fare for a journey taken, particularly if there are breaks of journey etc. At least with a paper ticket you know what you have paid and what it is valid for, without having to check your account afterwards.

keyGo has always been accurate for me with break of journey as well as different origins/destinations in one day, or it has only undercharged me.

Tap2Go uses the same technology, I believe, as keyGo, so they'll likely only be as accurate as each other (which is probably accurate enough for the vast majority of cases.

In fact, Tap2Go will likely result in cheaper fares than contactless due to it accounting for BoJ while the contactless system almost certainly won't.

I think the only time I could have gotten a better deal than keyGo was if I had bought a return for the opposite of my journey and discarded the outbound for a weekend one-way journey from Victoria to Oxted. Quite obvious why keyGo didn't do that for me, though.

 

[TUC]

Another example of where so-called simplification of fares costs people more.

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately there is no real route for 'appeal' - whilst you're correct that Anytime fares for short journeys such as these are generally regulated, the government is behind the Project Oval changes and so will undoubtedly have given permission for all of the required changes to regulated fares.

You're effectively limited to raising the matter with your MP or London Assembly Member, but unfortunately I fear the response may amount to 'you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs'.

I would strongly encourage @skintcommuter to look at this suggestion to complain about the price rise to their MP. Unfortunately they are very unlikely to be able to do anything even if they agree with you about the policy objective, and the chances are they won't care much about the policy if they're a Conservative MP. I think the Conservatives would rather you pay more.

To find contact details for your MP you can use this link: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

 

[Mikw]

Another example of where so-called simplification of fares costs people more.

Indeed. Whenever i hear the word "simplification" or the phrase "a fairer system" it's usually code for "Big price hike incoming".
Yes, we want simpler fares, and fairer fares but we don't want big fare increases.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Another example of where so-called simplification of fares costs people more.

it's not 'so-called' - it is a simplification, but it has always been the case that unless subsidy is increased, there are going to be both winners and losers when fare choice is reduced to simplify the structure.

 

[fandroid]

I too would suggest giving Tap2go a try. Just do it for one week initially in order to gain confidence and to see how much it might have saved you. If you find it doesn't work for you, then go to buying the different single tickets for morning and evening and dump the card. I find the Smartcard system to be very convenient indeed as it avoids the hassle of forever fiddling with paper tickets and doesn't suffer from premature smartphone battery expiry that can effect etickets.