465s to Dover Priory, now confined to history?

[brad465]

With more 377s on the way and the Chatham mainline reportedly prioritised for them over Tunbridge Wells' services, are 465s no longer diagrammed to go to Dover Priory on Sundays? None appeared to make an appearance yesterday and they were on and off in the previous timetable, where previously 2 out of 5 allocated sets were*. There still appears to be an early morning Faversham-Cannon Street that consists of 2x 465s Monday-Friday however, but I presume this will cease once SE have all the 377s they're due to get.

*When it was possible to run the full length as timetabled that is, given the Chatham mainline has a notorious record of Sunday engineering work, especially in the Medway towns' area.

 

[david737]

I've just looked at the carriage workings for Sundays from Dec 24 and it would appear there no 465's from Dover Priory anymore.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've just looked at the carriage workings for Sundays from Dec 24 and it would appear there no 465's from Dover Priory anymore.

I‘d certainly hope not. They’re horrendous as it is for Metro services, let alone Mainline.

 

[jfollows]

See https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/freedom-of-information for carriage working notices, including for the most recent timetable.
No 465 for Sundays at Dover Priory.

 

[brad465]

Thank you all for confirming.

 

[sh24]

I‘d certainly hope not. They’re horrendous as it is for Metro services, let alone Mainline.

Amen. I had the displeasure of a Sunday night solo 4 car Networker to Faversham earlier in the year. Horrible things. Electrostars are a much much better passenger experience.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Amen. I had the displeasure of a Sunday night solo 4 car Networker to Faversham earlier in the year. Horrible things. Electrostars are a much much better passenger experience.

Absolutely.

 

[brad465]

I‘d certainly hope not. They’re horrendous as it is for Metro services, let alone Mainline.

Amen. I had the displeasure of a Sunday night solo 4 car Networker to Faversham earlier in the year. Horrible things. Electrostars are a much much better passenger experience.

What Southeastern need is something that combines good acceleration for a frequent calling pattern with interior comfort like that of the 375s. The all stations calling pattern to Dover, along with the Maidstone East line services, would benefit hugely from this, as Networkers are superior in stop-start acceleration, but inferior in interior comfort, when compared to 375/377s. But that's another debate entirely.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What Southeastern need is something that combines good acceleration for a frequent calling pattern with interior comfort like that of the 375s. The all stations calling pattern to Dover, along with the Maidstone East line services, would benefit hugely from this, as Networkers are superior in stop-start acceleration, but inferior in interior comfort, when compared to 375/377s. But that's another debate entirely.

Something like a 730/2 DC version, perhaps.

 

[brad465]

While not to Dover, 465912 has found itself diagrammed on Canterbury East services today (Dover is shut for engineering work). The 10:12 VIC-CBE is formed with this unit; none of the other units allocated to this route appear to be 465s.

This suggests they can still appear on relief work, especially when the full route to Dover isn't running.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

While not to Dover, 465912 has found itself diagrammed on Canterbury East services today (Dover is shut for engineering work). The 10:12 VIC-CBE is formed with this unit; none of the other units allocated to this route appear to be 465s.

This suggests they can still appear on relief work, especially when the full route to Dover isn't running.

On its own?? I bet that was cozy…

 

[brad465]

On its own?? I bet that was cozy…

I doubt many passengers were on board for a long time (say an hour or more): it was on a stopping service that actually sits at Faversham for 10 minutes in both directions, so a fast service between Victoria and Ramsgate can overtake and allow interchange between both. It was busiest between Victoria and Bromley South, then much quieter till Faversham, where it then got busy again as several passengers boarded for Canterbury. All the 375 diagrams for the Canterbury services were 4-car as well. At least it was a 465/9, which has the best interior of the fleet, including a former 1st class area with comfier seats and more space.

 

[brad465]

According to RailChecker, there are two 8-car 465 sets on Cannon St-Dover Priory services today, which I believe is the first time they're visiting Dover in service this year:

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Check train times, formations, crowding, planning, disruption and more on RailChecker.

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Check train times, formations, crowding, planning, disruption and more on RailChecker.

railchecker.app

The services are running fast from London Bridge to Bromley South via the Beckenham Spur, then all stations to Dover from St Mary Cray.

 

[Trainguy34]

I saw a couple out last weekend, got to use that spur as well which was cool

 

[brad465]

I saw a couple out last weekend, got to use that spur as well which was cool

Yes there were 3x 8-car 465 diagrams last Sunday which ran as far as Canterbury East (the line beyond to Dover being shut).

 

[Trainguy34]

Oh yeah, I forgot I had to get a replacement bus for part of it!

 

[stadler]

On its own?? I bet that was cozy…

It could be worse! I had a short formed single three coach 375/3 on a Dover to London service last year!

According to RailChecker, there are two 8-car 465 sets on Cannon St-Dover Priory services today, which I believe is the first time they're visiting Dover in service this year:

Search | RailChecker

Check train times, formations, crowding, planning, disruption and more on RailChecker.

railchecker.app

Search | RailChecker

Check train times, formations, crowding, planning, disruption and more on RailChecker.

railchecker.app

The services are running fast from London Bridge to Bromley South via the Beckenham Spur, then all stations to Dover from St Mary Cray.

Where are they getting the data that it is 465 operated from? I thought that SE had not released train type open data which is why RTT still do not show them?

 

[brad465]

Where are they getting the data that it is 465 operated from? I thought that SE had not released train type open data which is why RTT still do not show them?

Darwin I believe, the same system that National Rail Enquiries uses. I don't know if RailChecker receives the class type directly, or uses deduction, but a NRE site user could deduce what classes are involved based on the displayed train formation underneath a service's full details.

On NRE, a 465 has 4 carriages with 1 disabled toilet marker, whereas a 4-car 375 has two toilets, 1 accessible and 1 standard. NRE also has letters and numbers distinguishing units. A 466 is easy to identify as its only 2 carriages, while 376 and 707-formed trains have no toilet symbols and the carriage coding reveals 5-car breakdowns.

 

[Robski]

Where are they getting the data that it is 465 operated from? I thought that SE had not released train type open data which is why RTT still do not show them?

Darwin I believe, the same system that National Rail Enquiries uses. I don't know if RailChecker receives the class type directly, or uses deduction, but a NRE site user could deduce what classes are involved based on the displayed train formation underneath a service's full details.

On NRE, a 465 has 4 carriages with 1 disabled toilet marker, whereas a 4-car 375 has two toilets, 1 accessible and 1 standard. NRE also has letters and numbers distinguishing units. A 466 is easy to identify as its only 2 carriages, while 376 and 707-formed trains have no toilet symbols and the carriage coding reveals 5-car breakdowns.

For Southeastern services, RailChecker uses deduction based on the formation data published through Darwin to work out the train type (@brad465 has explained it pretty much bang on).

 

[Trainguy34]

I don't think I've ever seen 376s or 707s up this way unless it's for maintenance at Ramsgate, and normally if it's a Networker it's pathed at 75mph compared to 100 for a 375.