49€ Ticket to come and worry about slashing rail services

[U-Bahnfreund]

On the one hand, the transport ministers of the states and their federal counterpart generally agreed on introducing a 49€ ticket as a successor to the 9€ ticket "as soon as possible". The states altogether and the federal level are supposed to give 1.5 billion € each for that. There are no exact details yet, and no introduction date has been set. After the next minister president conference in a few days, there should be further information.
Source: Report by RND about transport minister meeting, where a 49€ ticket was generally agreed about, but not yet finally decided on the financial details https://www.rnd.de/politik/bund-und...eglich-kommen-KDBTZAS5ORF57LENK5O7VILPPA.html

On the other hand, several regional rail authorities worry about having to slash rail services by reducing timetables and closing less frequented lines. Costs of energy (both electricity and diesel) are rising to steeply, that from 2023, the existing services can't be financed any further. They plead the states and the federal level to agree on giving more money for regional rail services through the "Regionalisierungsmittel".
Worrying authorities include the North and South Rhineland-Palatinate Rail Authorities, who published this article: https://www.rolph.de/artikel/grosse...et-und-angebotsdichte-im-rheinland-pfalz-takt (article where the two authorities warn that some routes, e.g. around Kaiserslautern or Winden to Bad Bergzabern might have to be closed, or timetables elsewhere reduced, if no further money is being set apart for transport), but I've read similar news from the NWL and NVR in North Rhine-Westphalia and from authorities in Saxony.

 

[duesselmartin]

yes, even comunal or city transport companies will lose revenue and towns which already run a high deficit could be severly affected.

It does sound like "we have to do something" but unlike Baldric, they don't have a plan.

The ticket could also mean a drop in demand for inter city services and therefore losses for the long distance division of DB.

Should I keep my Bahncard if I travel say Dortmund to Bonn frequently?

Best wishes
Martin

 

[dutchflyer]

Essential info-mostly for non-Germans is still lacking-of course. If it copies the Austrian climate-model: then it will be for only those living in DE and only for those willing to commit for at least 1 full year. Thus excluding any visitors. The DSO forum said it would be online as app only-and hence an immediate storm of protest in those circles about this utterly discriminating feature (this is fairly common for Germany)-and it seems also likely that the next storm of protest will be that it may not then even be available against cash purchases.

It escapes me personally why they did not choose the 1/2/3€ model (per day-for city=community/province=Land/nation).

As a possible source of finance: it was also stated that the total cost of running all payment systems for all transit (incl all machines, staff, advertising etc.) was estimated at around 2 milliards (billions)-equals 25€/pp for every German in 1 yr. Also those who never use transit. It would do away of all seasons costing more (can easily run up to over 200/month for longer distance)-in fact most season monthlies in the better ´Verkehrsverbünde´ also cost at least that amount or around-even for special groups like seniors etc.
Th states/Länder of Bayern and Thüringen were most against it.

 

[duesselmartin]

That it can be cancelled by the customer on a monthly basis and will be app based only is already decided according to Volker Wissing (transport minister).

 

[busestrains]

That is a shame it is app based only. I am not sure why they can not make it available from ticket machines and ticket offices and onboard trains like the successful EUR9.00 one was. That does seem a bit discriminatory as it means there is no way to purchase this ticket if you do not have a bank account or do not have a smartphone. So some people will be excluded.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I seem to recall that the famous DB ticket machines cost c. EUR20,000 each to buy (they are precision engineered, afer all). That was from the time when one of the local sports in parts of DE was to blow them up. So probably quite sensible to try and phase them out! Or at least to get simpler machines that don't have all of the functions of the DB machines!

 

[riceuten]

As I recall, like the BahnCard (someone correct me if I am wrong), it has to be taken out as a subscription and although you can indeed cancel it, you have to call a call centre to do so and they try and convince you to stay.

 

[duesselmartin]

Yes the Bahncard has been a subscription model for quite some time now.

Nowadays you can cancel your subscription online or via the DB Navigator app.

 

[zero]

Trust Germany to turn something which should be simple into something complicated.

It took me 3 tries and 3 weeks to cancel my Bahncard, and I only saved about €10 overall... I generally go to Germany for max 2-3 days at a time so I guess if my tickets add up to €59 or less I won't bother with this.

 

[duesselmartin]

Sweden is also going down the digital path with hardly any booking offices left in the country .
Others will follow suit.

 

[riceuten]

Trust Germany to turn something which should be simple into something complicated.

It took me 3 tries and 3 weeks to cancel my Bahncard, and I only saved about €10 overall... I generally go to Germany for max 2-3 days at a time so I guess if my tickets add up to €59 or less I won't bother with this.

This is what I had assumed would be the case. Previously it involved ringing a premium rate number (!) and hanging on to have it cancelled. I'm a regular visitor to Germany as well, and the €49 would certainly be worth it sometimes as a one off, but it's certainly sharp practice to make it subscription and app only.

 

[class68fan]

The ticket could also mean a drop in demand for inter city services and therefore losses for the long distance division of DB.
Should I keep my Bahncard if I travel say Dortmund to Bonn frequently?

Best wishes
Martin

If the 20 minutes or so extra on less comfortable REs doesn't bother you bin the bahn card.

 

[XAM2175]

For what it's worth, I was able to cancel mine earlier this year simply by sending them an email.

 

[zero]

Sweden is also going down the digital path with hardly any booking offices left in the country .
Others will follow suit.

But can you still buy a ticket at a machine?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Germany is not as modern as Sweden, fortunately. Cash, and ticket machines taking cash and cards, are still ubiquitous in the BRD. Reisezentren/travel centers are getting smaller rather than being closed, and are moving to secondary locations to make way for retail.

Seems the politicians are still arguing about the 49€ ticket, whether you have to subscribe or can just buy it for a month. The 9€ ticket was dreamed up hastily, maybe the 49€ ticket is being thought through better.

I think that price is for many people only one of the important factors in travel decisions.

I did read that some experts were evaluating the effects of the 9€ ticket, not sure of their conclusions.

 

[riceuten]

Germans still have a thing about cards (particularly credit cards) which mean, even now, some machines will only take Eurocards and nothing else. I think it's DB arguing for the subscription model, which they are hoping works out for them with people forgetting to cancel it.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Germans still have a thing about cards (particularly credit cards) which mean, even now, some machines will only take Eurocards and nothing else. I think it's DB arguing for the subscription model, which they are hoping works out for them with people forgetting to cancel it.

People get quite good at remembering to cancel subscriptions, like for the bahn card.

That there has been less talk about the 49€ ticket lately could be a good sign, perhaps some experts are carefully considering how to do it properly.

A ticket on smartphones only is very unlikely, many people prefer cash even now.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

The federal government and the states have agreed upon the financial details of the 49€ ticket, which will be known as the "Deutschlandticket". For the ticket alone, the federal government and the states will give 1.5 bln euros a year each (so 3 in total). In addition, the federal government is giving the states 1 bln euros a year for them to organise services with, so that no lines have to be withdrawn because there isn't enought money. These 1 bln euros will be increased by 3% each year.

The 49€ ticket will be introduced as soon as possible. Everyone would like to have a start on 1 January 2023, but Baden-Württemberg transport minister Hermann warns it might be 1 March or 1 April.

Source: article by Spiegel https://www.spiegel.de/auto/49-euro..._ecid=soci_upd_wbMbjhOSvViISjc8RPU89NcCvtlFcJ

 

[Watershed]

The federal government and the states have agreed upon the financial details of the 49€ ticket, which will be known as the "Deutschlandticket". For the ticket alone, the federal government and the states will give 1.5 bln euros a year each (so 3 in total). In addition, the federal government is giving the states 1 bln euros a year for them to organise services with, so that no lines have to be withdrawn because there isn't enought money. These 1 bln euros will be increased by 3% each year.

The 49€ ticket will be introduced as soon as possible. Everyone would like to have a start on 1 January 2023, but Baden-Württemberg transport minister Hermann warns it might be 1 March or 1 April.

Source: article by Spiegel https://www.spiegel.de/auto/49-euro..._ecid=soci_upd_wbMbjhOSvViISjc8RPU89NcCvtlFcJ

Presumably this will still exclude IC/ICE services, as with the €9 ticket?

 

[Austriantrain]

Presumably this will still exclude IC/ICE services, as with the €9 ticket?

Yes.

 

[riceuten]

I can't see a clarification of whether this is still going to be based on the subscription model that DB wanted (i.e. it would be €49 a month unless you cancelled) - something very common in Germany and - to my mind, anyway - fundamentally dishonest.

 

[Austriantrain]

I can't see a clarification of whether this is still going to be based on the subscription model that DB wanted (i.e. it would be €49 a month unless you cancelled) - something very common in Germany and - to my mind, anyway - fundamentally dishonest.

I cannot really see what is dishonest about it, especially as it seems you can cancel it monthly at no cost.

 

[riceuten]

Any kind of "roll over" contract is dishonest. You should actively choose to purchase a product, not have to remember to cancel it. It is not a matter of just going to a part of the DB website and clicking/unsubscribing - although that in itself is still unacceptable - but the fact you actually have to email them, and/or call them up using - in Germany anyway - a premium rate number. And hope the operator speaks English.

 

[duesselmartin]

The idea is sold as taking off financial pressures from communters ect. Tourists were not part of the planning even though they could use it (and contribute to the German economy).
Yes cancelling subscriptions is a hassle but can you imagine a similar deal in the UK?

 

[Watershed]

Any kind of "roll over" contract is dishonest. You should actively choose to purchase a product, not have to remember to cancel it. It is not a matter of just going to a part of the DB website and clicking/unsubscribing - although that in itself is still unacceptable - but the fact you actually have to email them, and/or call them up using - in Germany anyway - a premium rate number. And hope the operator speaks English.

They don't have to be fundamentally dishonest. Would you prefer to have to manually renew your broadband, mobile or insurance policies? Most people don't, even though there is typically a 'loyalty penalty' for doing so.

With no such penalty here, I don't think it's at all objectionable. In fact I think it would be good if the same facility were offered for Railcards.

The main thing is that it's easy to cancel, and that's where having to email or call is unacceptable - it's intentionally designed to make it too much hassle. That isn't on.

 

[Austriantrain]

Any kind of "roll over" contract is dishonest. You should actively choose to purchase a product, not have to remember to cancel it. It is not a matter of just going to a part of the DB website and clicking/unsubscribing - although that in itself is still unacceptable - but the fact you actually have to email them, and/or call them up using - in Germany anyway - a premium rate number. And hope the operator speaks English.

I don’t agree at all. This is a tariff financed by German taxpayers for people living in Germany, and rolling-over makes it much, much easier to use - and I repeat, it can be cancelled at any time, without penalty, and (I am sure) electronically as well, if bought online.

In any case, at least some tiny amount of responsibility of customers for their own affairs is not out of place. There is a limit to nannying.

 

[rvdborgt]

It is not a matter of just going to a part of the DB website and clicking/unsubscribing - although that in itself is still unacceptable - but the fact you actually have to email them, and/or call them up using - in Germany anyway - a premium rate number. And hope the operator speaks English.

DB have a normal Berlin phone number for customer service nowadays.
Do we already know how you can cancel the subscription? A BahnCard subscription can be cancelled using an online form, so I wonder why would you expect this to be different for the €49 ticket.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I can't see a clarification of whether this is still going to be based on the subscription model that DB wanted (i.e. it would be €49 a month unless you cancelled) - something very common in Germany and - to my mind, anyway - fundamentally dishonest.

Germany has really nasty consumer laws in this respect. They often make it very difficult to cancel, and if you don't cancel in time, you're locked into a lengthy new contract with no means of leaving it.

 

[riceuten]

I don’t agree at all. This is a tariff financed by German taxpayers for people living in Germany, and rolling-over makes it much, much easier to use - and I repeat, it can be cancelled at any time, without penalty, and (I am sure) electronically as well, if bought online.

In any case, at least some tiny amount of responsibility of customers for their own affairs is not out of place. There is a limit to nannying.

By this bizarre logic, all monthly season tickets here in the UK should auto-renew, unless you deem otherwise. You might not know the extent to which this kind of stuff prevails in Germany, but it does, and it's a huge pain. Cancellation often needs to be given up to a month in advance for an annual subscription and must be made by phoning a particular number, which is often permanently engaged and/or a premium rate number.

 

[Austriantrain]

By this bizarre logic, all monthly season tickets here in the UK should auto-renew, unless you deem otherwise. You might not know the extent to which this kind of stuff prevails in Germany, but it does, and it's a huge pain. Cancellation often needs to be given up to a month in advance for an annual subscription and must be made by phoning a particular number, which is often permanently engaged and/or a premium rate number.

1. As you can guess from my user name, I am not that far from Germany, so quite used to its ways, which are not so different from ours.

2. I find it completely justified that for such a remarkably (almost ridiculously) cheap ticket, which is hugely subsidized by the taxpayer, the Germans aim to reduce the bureaucratic amount in administrating it. Once you show me a UK nationwide public transport ticket (except for a number of long-distance services) at £50 that does not auto-renew, I might change my mind.

BTW the Austrian Klimaticket does not auto-renew, but can only be bought on a yearly basis. It being so cheap and so highly subsidized, it is aimed at people taking public-transport seriously and not just aim for a small number of cheap journeys whenever they feel like it. And quite rightly so.

It would be a free lunch otherwise… (it almost is anyway).