4TC London Transport Livery

[03_179]

Sorry if this has been asked.

Yesterday I saw what appeared to be a 4 car EMU in London Transport livery at Eastleigh works.

I did a Google and found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_438 is this actually them?

I'm trying to pin down the actual formation and vehicle/unit number for this stock.

Thanks in advance for assistance

 

[fgwrich]

Sorry if this has been asked.

Yesterday I saw what appeared to be a 4 car EMU in London Transport livery at Eastleigh works.

I did a Google and found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_438 is this actually them?

I'm trying to pin down the actual formation and vehicle/unit number for this stock.

Thanks in advance for assistance

I can't remember the formation at the moment, but yes - the LT TC currently lives at Eastleigh Works. I'm surprised it hasn't made it back to Ruislip yet.

 

[03_179]

I can't remember the formation at the moment, but yes - the LT TC currently lives at Eastleigh Works. I'm surprised it hasn't made it back to Ruislip yet.

Thanks

 

[fgwrich]

Thanks

Formation is:
76297
71163
70823
76324

 

[03_179]

Thanks

Formation is:
76297
71163
70823
76324

 

[wickham]

The LT 4TC consists of vehicles 76297 71163 70823 76324 - these did not all originate from the same unit (indeed I beleive from memory that one of the intermediates originated from a 4REP - but I stand to be corrected!) and I understand the unit might be known as 417 but again I stand to be corrected.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Formation is 76297-71163-70823-76324.

Final fettling of the retention tanks and CDL equipment is ongoing to re-certify the set for passenger use across the mainline.

Given there isn't currently the ability to operate it on LUL (Sarah Siddons is also having work done) and depot requirements at Ruislip there isn't a huge rush for it to return.

 

[357]

The coaches are 76297, 71163, 70823, and 76324.

 

[JonathanH]

The LT 4TC consists of vehicles 76297 71163 70823 76324 - these did not all originate from the same unit (indeed I beleive from memory that one of the intermediates originated from a 4REP - but I stand to be corrected!) and I understand the unit might be known as 417 but again I stand to be corrected.

I think the unit is closer to being known as 8028 but isn't from a single 4-TC.

At one point, LUL had two TC units. The second one is what is on the Swanage Railway.

410 and 417 were the units which operated as NSE charter stock. 410 doesn't now exist. The coaches from 417 moved from Bellingham, Northumberland to Swanage.

71163 came originally from a 3-TC before they were all made into four car units, but no original REP coaches there.

All better set out than this on Wikipedia.

 

[03_179]

Thanks to everyone

 

[wickham]

Further to my note above, a check in the records shows that 70823 was originally in unit 412, 71163 originally in 430 but latterly in 1901 (a temporary 6REP), 76297 originally in 415 and 76324 in 428. So my mention of "417" is completely wrong. It will be recalled that in the last months of the REP/TC fleet there were a number of temporary units such as 19xx, 28xx and 81xx which were reforms of the mixed 4TC/4REP fleet many of the vehicles being interchangable. LT originally obtained two units, 8015 and the other recorded as "1901" (but it was an unpowered 4TC of mixed origin). After a number of years LT dispenced with the unit known as 8015 but retained the other.

Since typing this, I have realised that 6REP unit 1901 was output from Eastleigh Works 25.03.91 formed 76324 70830 71163 62142 70824 76322: "1901" then went to LT on 26.02.92 formed as a 4 car trailer rake 76322 70824 71163 76324: 8015 went to LT on 11.01.92 formed 76297 70855 "70826" (presumably this should be 70823?) 76298.
It would appear that shome shuffling of cars took place under LT ownership.

 

[Invincible]

Formation is 76297-71163-70823-76324.

Final fettling of the retention tanks and CDL equipment is ongoing to re-certify the set for passenger use across the mainline.

Given there isn't currently the ability to operate it on LUL (Sarah Siddons is also having work done) and depot requirements at Ruislip there isn't a huge rush for it to return.

The LT unit has also been popular for cost effective rail tours on the 3rd rail mainline network with a couple of 73 locos, so may have some lined up for more in 2024 when recertified.
Also has been used in the Mid Haunts and Swanage diesel galas in push pull mode with the 33111 loco.

The 4TC group at the Swanage railway have been busy with restoring their unit in a blue grey colour, might run in the May gala?
Possible if the LT unit is ready might run a rail tour from London to the Swanage gala again.

 

[JonathanH]

The LT unit has also been popular for cost effective rail tours on the 3rd rail mainline network with a couple of 73 locos, so may have some lined up for more in 2024 when recertified.

It is slated for use on two tours with 50008 and other locomotives on the Late Spring Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May.

 

[Invincible]

It is slated for use on two tours with 50008 and other locomotives on the Late Spring Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May.

The Swanage gala is May 12th, no confirmation the LT 4TC will be there this year.
Could it be the Eastleigh to Weymouth tour with 50008 on the 26th?

'Millbrook Meander' to run from Eastleigh to Weymouth this May

The Branch Line Society has released details of its 'Millbrook Meander' on Sunday 26 May 2024.

www.railadvent.co.uk

The write up says MK1 carriages, but that is effectively what the 4TC is derived from.

 

[Mike Machin]

I remember when 4-TC 417 was in service in the 1970s, one of the driving trailer seconds featured MK2 seating. Someone told me that it was to assess the viability of re-fitting the REP/TC fleet with MK2 type seating to improve the experience for travellers on what was then considered an Inter-City service.

Evidently the idea didn't progress any further and when the Bournemouth line became part of the South East sector and NSE, it became just another outer suburban route anyway. Does anyone know if the driving trailer with the MK2 seats survived?

 

[Invincible]

The Swanage gala is May 12th, no confirmation the LT 4TC will be there this year.

Now confirmed and tickets from London 9th May, return 12th, for sale on the Branch Line Society website.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If anyone wishes to learn more about the full history of the BR Mk1 coaches that made up the TC stock (and most of the REP's), I can fully recommend Hugh Longworth's 'BR Mk1 & Mk 2 coaching stock'. A hefty tome, but well worth investing in if one is into detailed history of such vehicles. Of those that make up the 4 TC in question, two were first built in the second half of 1954, so a certain anniversary is fast approaching.

 

[Mike Machin]

The LT unit has also been popular for cost effective rail tours on the 3rd rail mainline network with a couple of 73 locos, so may have some lined up for more in 2024 when recertified.
Also has been used in the Mid Haunts and Swanage diesel galas in push pull mode with the 33111 loco.

The 4TC group at the Swanage railway have been busy with restoring their unit in a blue grey colour, might run in the May gala?
Possible if the LT unit is ready might run a rail tour from London to the Swanage gala again.

Do they run ghost trains on the Mid Haunts?

 

[43096]

If anyone wishes to learn more about the full history of the BR Mk1 coaches that made up the TC stock (and most of the REP's), I can fully recommend Hugh Longworth's 'BR Mk1 & Mk 2 coaching stock'. A hefty tome, but well worth investing in if one is into detailed history of such vehicles. Of those that make up the 4 TC in question, two were first built in the second half of 1954, so a certain anniversary is fast approaching.

I would also recommend the excellent "Blood and Custard" website's piece on the REP and TC units: https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html

 

[Invincible]

Aw

Do they run ghost trains on the Mid Haunts?

Ha ha will have to switch off the auto spell check.

Aw

I remember when 4-TC 417 was in service in the 1970s, one of the driving trailer seconds featured MK2 seating. Someone told me that it was to assess the viability of re-fitting the REP/TC fleet with MK2 type seating to improve the experience for travellers on what was then considered an Inter-City service.

Evidently the idea didn't progress any further and when the Bournemouth line became part of the South East sector and NSE, it became just another outer suburban route anyway. Does anyone know if the driving trailer with the MK2 seats survived?

From Swanning Around issue 100 2 of unit 417 carriages were brought by the Swanage 4TC last year with the aim of restoration. Might have been one of them?

 

[norbitonflyer]

[4TC] confirmed and tickets from London 9th May, return 12th, for sale on the Branch Line Society website.

BLS website gives details as Eastleigh - Waterloo- Swanage on the 9th and vice versa on 12th. Top and tail with a 33 and, of all things, a 69!

 

[JonathanH]

Top and tail with a 33 and, of all things, a 69!

Not surprising when the 69 is one of the stated guests for the gala.

 

[Invincible]

I would also recommend the excellent "Blood and Custard" website's piece on the REP and TC units: https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html

Looking at the webpage 76331 was the carriage in unit 417 that had Mk2 seating, then replaced by 76302 with original seating in 1984 (now at Swanage or to be moved there)
seems 76331 was scrapped in 1986.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Not surprising when the 69 is one of the stated guests for the gala.

Not surprising, but it will be an unusual sight nevertheless. (And some rare haulage) Has a 69 ever been used on a passenger service (even a charter like this) before?

 

[JonathanH]

Not surprising, but it will be an unusual sight nevertheless. (And some rare haulage) Has a 69 ever been used on a passenger service (even a charter like this) before?

69002 and 69001 operated the last leg of the GBRf21 railtour from Bescot Yard to London Paddington on 5 September 2021
69004 operated a railtour from London Waterloo to Marchwood and Luggershall on 16 July 2022
69005 and 69006 operated a railtour from Tame Bridge Parkway to Penzance on 24 June 2023

69005 operated on the Severn Valley Railway at its diesel gala in May 2022.

69004 was a static exhibit at Swanage in May 2022.

So, the Swanage trip will, I think, be the fourth tour for the class.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Looking at the webpage 76331 was the carriage in unit 417 that had Mk2 seating

And the fluorescent lighting. 76331 was originally one of (two IIRC?) spare vehicles, converted from Mk1's but never allocated to a 'unit', hence, in this case it was available to be used as a test bed. 76302 was part of 417 original consist, which 76331 replaced for the duration of the trial with the new fittings. I do remember the lighting, being glaringly bright on first impression.

 

[Invincible]

The 4TC will be at the part of the Holt Hoover rail tour on 6th June to the North Norfolk Railway Rails and Ales event with 50008 and 33012.

BLS Fixtures List