5G Boeing & Airbus concerns in USA

[172007]

Boeing and Airbus have raised concerns over 5G cell phone transmissions affecting aircraft systems Inc the radio altimeter.

Boeing and Airbus warn US over 5G safety concerns

The world's two biggest plane makers say the technology could have a negative impact on the aviation industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

In a letter, top executives at Boeing and Airbus warned that the technology could have "an enormous negative impact on the aviation industry."
Concerns have previously been raised that C-Band spectrum 5G wireless could interfere with aircraft electronics.
US telecoms giants AT&T and Verizon are due to deploy 5G services on 5 January.
"5G interference could adversely affect the ability of aircraft to safely operate," said the bosses of Boeing and Airbus Americas, Dave Calhoun and Jeffrey Knittel, in a joint letter to US Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

After checking the 5G reception around Heathrow I was unsurprised to see that 5G is available In parts of the airport, perimeter and also on the approaches over the surrounding area; it is patchy though.

Are the US using a different 5G system / frequency range as I have not heard of any flight operations disruption In Europe due to 5G yet the FAA are quoting quite severe disruption according to models.

 

[TheGarner]

I don't believe in the UK at least that networks are using 3800 - 4200 MHz yet which is the range that may possible cause problems with systems in the aircraft.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Same 5G, different frequencies/bands. Here's an explanation of the 5G bands: https://www.nokia.com/networks/insights/spectrum-bands-5g-world/

 

[172007]

We that comprehensively answers my question. Didn't know it covered different frequencies and could you use 3g frequencies.

 

[rf_ioliver]

We that comprehensively answers my question. Didn't know it covered different frequencies and could you use 3g frequencies.

It isn't like there are frequencies for specific generations, 3G, 4G etc, just that there is a whole area of radio spectrum reserved for communications. These are then subdivided into various bands for various usages, protocols etc, eg: GSM-R in the UK is allocated very specific frequencies and bandwidth. Advances in antenna design, base stations and the allocation algorithms over time (which are collectively called 5G) allow very devices to request and allocation certain frequencies, bands etc based upon usage, requested bandwidth, capabilities etc. This is the thing that gives 5G its improvements in data speed (amongst other things).

If a 3G (or even 2G) device talks over the radio access network to a 5G base station, the RAN will allocate to that device the required 3G specified frequencies and divert the 3G protocol traffic to the bits in the system that handle 3G, which will then act as a bridge to whatever else is there. In a way, 5G is designed to consider everything else, GSM-R, 3G, 4G etc as "applications" on top of the Core and RAN. You'll also see things such as 5G-SA and 5G-NSA (Stand Alone and Not Stand Alone) which describe how 5G interacts with older protocols.

It is also a bit of a misnomer to consider any of the "G"s as being new, but rather a continuous evolution of mobile protocols, capabilities, technologies, application areas (eg: railway) etc over time. IIRC, we're on 5G release 18 at the moment....https://www.3gpp.org/3gpp-calendar/44-specifications/releases

5G for railways...now that *is* going to be interesting! Some very cool stuff coming there

 

[WatcherZero]

As mentioned US mobile phone bands are slightly different, though another major contributor is in the US 5G towers have a broadcast strength cap that is twenty times higher than it is in Europe (trying to compensate for the short range of 5G signals and the greater geographic area needed to cover by boosting power).
Its not just the US frequency being close to the frequency of radio altimeters as well, this is the list of aircraft systems the FAA believes to be at risk of 5G signal interference, either because they use radar or because Boeing has tied their operation to altimeter readings.

• Class A Terrain Awareness Warning Systems (TAWS-A)
• Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning Systems (EGPWS)
• Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance Systems (TCAS II)
• Take-off guidance systems
• Flight Control (control surface)
• Tail strike prevention systems
• Windshear detection systems
• Envelope Protection Systems
• Altitude safety call outs/alerts
• Autothrottle
• Thrust reversers
• Flight Director
• Primary Flight Display of height above ground
• Alert/warning or alert/warning inhibit
• Stick pusher / stick shaker
• Engine and wing anti-ice systems
• Automatic Flight Guidance and Control Systems (AFGCS)

The following planes have been certified by the FAA to be free from interference: Boeing 737, 747, 757 and 767, and the Airbus A319, A320, A321, A330 and A350.
The Boeing 777, 787 and Boeing Freighters have all been found to suffer from 5G interference degrading their systems.

 

[D365]

Aha… I was wondering why this hasn’t been a concern in the UK as yet.