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6233 Duchess of Sutherland OHLE arc incident?

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brad465

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I've just discovered this video showing the above Steam locomotive hauled train heading for the Lickey and an OHLE flash as it passed, but not causing the train to stop:


Does anyone know how this might have been caused and if disruption resulted from possible power supply problems?
 
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I've just discovered this video showing the above Steam locomotive hauled train heading for the Lickey and an OHLE flash as it passed, but not causing the train to stop:


Does anyone know how this might have been caused and if disruption resulted from possible power supply problems?
The wires are lower under the bridge, and it has been suggested elsewhere that there was too much coal in the tender which effectively meant it was out of gauge.
 

Cowley

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I've just discovered this video showing the above Steam locomotive hauled train heading for the Lickey and an OHLE flash as it passed, but not causing the train to stop:


Does anyone know how this might have been caused and if disruption resulted from possible power supply problems?

It sounded like there was a second bang just as it passed the camera?
 

Nym

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The wires are lower under the bridge, and it has been suggested elsewhere that there was too much coal in the tender which effectively meant it was out of gauge.
Why does this not surprise me.

Next you'll say it was operated by that "RAIB has them on speed dial" company WCRC?
 

Cowley

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Why does this not surprise me.

Next you'll say it was operated by that "RAIB has them on speed dial" company WCRC?

No I think it was a Vintage Trains job.
 

Ash Bridge

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It sounded like there was a second bang just as it passed the camera?
That may just have been wind hitting the microphone, although obviously can’t be 100% certain on that.

Don’t you just love how oblivious the walkers on the nearby path seem with all that drama occurring behind them!
 

DanNCL

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Pausing the video 36 seconds in you can see the tender is loaded with coal quite a bit higher than the roof of the train.

I don’t know when this occurred, but I would hope measures are/have been taken to reduce the chances of this happening again.

This certainly isn’t the first time that an arcing incident has occurred under 25kV AC OHLE with a steam loco in this country.
 

brad465

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Pausing the video 36 seconds in you can see the tender is loaded with coal quite a bit higher than the roof of the train.

I don’t know when this occurred, but I would hope measures are/have been taken to reduce the chances of this happening again.

This certainly isn’t the first time that an arcing incident has occurred under 25kV AC OHLE with a steam loco in this country.
I forgot to add it the video was released on the 21st November just over a week ago, so it's possible it was recent. However for anyone who hasn't gone into the video via YouTube, comments have been turned off so it's not possible to ask exactly when, while the video description doesn't give a date.
 

Cowley

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I forgot to add it the video was released on the 21st November just over a week ago, so it's possible it was recent. However for anyone who hasn't gone into the video via YouTube, comments have been turned off so it's not possible to ask exactly when, while the video description doesn't give a date.

Saturday 20th of November I believe.


That may just have been wind hitting the microphone, although obviously can’t be 100% certain on that.

Don’t you just love how oblivious the walkers on the nearby path seem with all that drama occurring behind them!

Would have got a better reaction than that on the sea wall. ;)
 

Peter Mugridge

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Pausing the video 36 seconds in you can see the tender is loaded with coal quite a bit higher than the roof of the train.
Playing it frame by frame, you can quite clearly see the moment the arcing starts and it is indeed at the top of the coal. You can also see a large quantity of, presumably now pulversied, coal being ejected out over both sides of the tender.

1638226587605.png 1638226656730.png 1638226707642.png
 

ABB125

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I know one of the stewards on the train, so I'll ask if they know anything.

I take issue with the title of the video - that is most certainly NOT the Lickey incline! It's a couple of hundred metres north of University station.
 

John Webb

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Bet that made the crew jump!
How do steam locos cope over 3rd rail when the injectors overflow?
Having been brought up on the Southern Region when there was still steam about, it doesn't seem to have been a problem. Saw it happening frequently and nothing appeared to happen. But your query has made me wonder! I assume the much lower voltage meant a much lower leakage current through the water to the earthed loco compared to the current taken by an EMU.
 

AlterEgo

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Those arcs are sending lumps of coal flying with the explosion. That's not good at all - whose bright idea was it to load the tender higher than the roof?
 

357

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The Anglia sectional appendix has an instruction for steam operated trains to ensure coal is not above the top of the tender and that sufficient coal is brought forward before entering a section with OHLE. I haven't checked but I'd assume they all contain this instruction.
 

AM9

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Those arcs are sending lumps of coal flying with the explosion. That's not good at all - whose bright idea was it to load the tender higher than the roof?
Has there ever been a fire in the tender coal?
 

Deepgreen

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Does this damage the overhead line equipment in any way?
I would imagine the intense heat at flashover does the cable no good, even if only weakening it a little. Probably not noticed in the scheme of things, but I consider it a major safety failure in that a flashover like this could cause knock-on effects with flying coal, and touching lumps of coal which, if rain-soaked, could then create a connection with the tender, and so on. This would be especially dangerous at very low speed where the contact could be much longer. Do not load the coal into an Egyptian pyramid formation - the rule is there for a reason. I recall also the incident at Bradford on Avon where a man of the platform had his arm broken by a large lump of coal flying off the pile on 'Tangmere' (I believe) passing at speed. I doubt if the crew were aware of anything happening in the din and flashing firelight of a footplate.

Has there ever been a fire in the tender coal?
It's called pre-heating the coal! Seriously, I haven't heard of one but I'd be surprised if it's never happened (pre-1968 I mean).

Having been brought up on the Southern Region when there was still steam about, it doesn't seem to have been a problem. Saw it happening frequently and nothing appeared to happen. But your query has made me wonder! I assume the much lower voltage meant a much lower leakage current through the water to the earthed loco compared to the current taken by an EMU.
I think you're right - I saw it not long ago with 35018 at West Byfleet. The cheerful waves from the crew did not suggest they were being fried!
 
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AM9

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I think you're right - I saw it not long ago with 35018 at West Byfleet. The cheerful waves from the crew did not suggest they were being fried!
Well, unless the crew somehow interposed themselves between the injector pipes and the 3rd rail, there isn't anywhere for then to get a shock. The other instance would be the whole loco raised to 750VDC, but that's very unlikely as all of it's wheels are firmly grounded on the running rails which will at least be grounded back at the feed point.
 

38Cto15E

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Footplate staff have to be very careful not to use the pricker etc to liven up the fire on overhead electrified lines.
 

alexl92

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As a layman onlooker, it had never occurred to me that the profile of a steam loco was such that they could actually risk fouling the OHLE if they overloaded the tender with too much coal. Was this the reason that some locos were banned from running under the wires under BR, with the yellow stripe on the cabside?
 

pdeaves

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As a layman onlooker, it had never occurred to me that the profile of a steam loco was such that they could actually risk fouling the OHLE if they overloaded the tender with too much coal. Was this the reason that some locos were banned from running under the wires under BR, with the yellow stripe on the cabside?
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that was to do with normal ride height (some protruding part like a whistle or safety valve) rather than how high the tender can load.
 

Harvester

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Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that was to do with normal ride height (some protruding part like a whistle or safety valve) rather than how high the tender can load.
Only certain ex LMS classes were yellow banded, the BR Standards and Stanier Class Fives were not. IIRC it was total (chimney) height that was the factor, as sections of the WCML south of Crewe (Nuneaton-Rugby) had a more restrictive loading gauge to avoid rebuilding certain bridges and tunnels.
 
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