A new route from Edinburgh To Glasgow via Kincardine

[PYROOGOBBO]

Heyo!, sorry if its a reborn of a old thread, but im interested to see since its been a while what the current feeling is towards a possible central scotland route would be of this?
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So i wonder if theres any feasability towards a route that would be kind of like this

Edinburgh Waverley - Haymarket - Edinburgh Gateway - Inverkeithing - Culross - Kincardine Talgo - Alloa - Stirling - Larbert - Croy - Lenzie - Bishopbriggs - Glasgow Queen Street.
OR
Edinburgh Waverley - Haymarket - Edinburgh Gateway - Inverkeithing - Rosyth - Dunfermilne - Kincardine - Alloa - Stirling - Larbert - Cumbernauld - Robroyston - Stepps - Springburn - Glasgow Queen Street? .

Or any variants of said route.
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Could be handy to work as a Connection for people in Glasgow/Lanarkshire And Edinburgh/Fife To the Talgo Factory in Kincardine.
Also, Seeing as Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk high has had cases where bad weather has blocked off the route (2018, 2020), this route could potentially be extra redundancy for a E-G Connection, With a diversion being made to stirling for GLA-EDI.

Also Creates a connection for Fife to Glasgow.
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Wonder too is, if Electrification of the forth bridge is too hard, and while the route is being reopened/worked on, Could this make an chance for scotrail to order 90/100mph Bi Mode Units, Possibilty modified 385's or an Agreement with Talgo, Which the Bi Mode units can be deployed on other routes, and also as a 156/158/170 Replacement.

 

[waverley47]

Nah not going to happen.

The junction at Dunfermline faces the wrong way, so you lose direct journeys and you'd have to reverse, which eats capacity. I appreciate it's currently 3tpj each way, which isn't bursting, but it's still not a great idea.

Secondly, if you were going to serve Fife from Glasgow, you'd probably do it from north Fife, down through Dunfermline or Kirkcaldy, and head over. You wouldn't bother going to Dunfermline and then back to Edinburgh.

Similarly, the Fife circle is set up to maximise capacity into Edinburgh. If you could find another 2tph over the bridge, you'd send them around fife and back again, because that provides the most capacity. You wouldn't send them to Dunfermline to immediately turn around and head for Glasgow, when instead you could serve all of Fife.

Stirling already has very fast journeys to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. It would be quicker from most of Clackmannanshire and Kincardinshire to Edinburgh to go the normal way, changing at Stirling. The journey through culross would be slow and tedious, only to reverse at Dunfermline and head south.

There isn't the need for a diversionary route through Fife. There's already 5 possible routes between the two cities. If you're in the position where all five are blocked, I'd stop worrying about trains and start worrying about finding an emergency bunker, and furthermore that level of damage would undoubtedly screw up the forth bridge for a while.


What might work, and indeed is likely to happen in the next few years, is sending the allow terminators through to Dunfermline. That's possible, but needs a few extra units, upgrading the signalling, and new stations, but never would it ever go as far as Edinburgh.

 

[JonathanH]

What might work, and indeed is likely to happen in the next few years, is sending the allow terminators through to Dunfermline. That's possible, but needs a few extra units, upgrading the signalling, and new stations, but never would it ever go as far as Edinburgh.

It might need electrification as well as I can't imagine anyone would want Alloa trains to no longer be formed of electric units.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

Nah not going to happen.

The junction at Dunfermline faces the wrong way, so you lose direct journeys and you'd have to reverse, which eats capacity. I appreciate it's currently 3tpj each way, which isn't bursting, but it's still not a great idea.

Secondly, if you were going to serve Fife from Glasgow, you'd probably do it from north Fife, down through Dunfermline or Kirkcaldy, and head over. You wouldn't bother going to Dunfermline and then back to Edinburgh.

Similarly, the Fife circle is set up to maximise capacity into Edinburgh. If you could find another 2tph over the bridge, you'd send them around fife and back again, because that provides the most capacity. You wouldn't send them to Dunfermline to immediately turn around and head for Glasgow, when instead you could serve all of Fife.

Stirling already has very fast journeys to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. It would be quicker from most of Clackmannanshire and Kincardinshire to Edinburgh to go the normal way, changing at Stirling. The journey through culross would be slow and tedious, only to reverse at Dunfermline and head south.

There isn't the need for a diversionary route through Fife. There's already 5 possible routes between the two cities. If you're in the position where all five are blocked, I'd stop worrying about trains and start worrying about finding an emergency bunker, and furthermore that level of damage would undoubtedly screw up the forth bridge for a while.


What might work, and indeed is likely to happen in the next few years, is sending the allow terminators through to Dunfermline. That's possible, but needs a few extra units, upgrading the signalling, and new stations, but never would it ever go as far as Edinburgh.

I was thinking maybe of Building a Corner at Dunfermilne but i being a dum forgot to look into how feasable it'd be to build a passthrough for dunfermilne!.
I just remember how much trouble the dam bursting in linlithgow caused Forth valley, so i thought of this as a possible solution.

Looks like i found what im maybe thinking of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling–Alloa–Kincardine_rail_link

anyhow!


I like your idea of Sending the alloa Trains through to Dunfermilne, That can create a Fife/Dunfermilne Direct Link to Glasgow, Extra Units? i dont know if scotrail has went for the option of 10 extra 385s hitachi offered But such a route could make space for them there.

also the Bi mode 385 idea or Battery Powered trains could be a solution for Alloas Electrification

 

[roadierway77]

I was thinking maybe of Building a Corner at Dunfermilne but i being a dum forgot to look into how feasable it'd be to build a passthrough for dunfermilne!.
I just remember how much trouble the dam bursting in linlithgow caused Forth valley, so i thought of this as a possible solution.

Looks like i found what im maybe thinking of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling–Alloa–Kincardine_rail_link

anyhow!


I like your idea of Sending the alloa Trains through to Dunfermilne, That can create a Fife/Dunfermilne Direct Link to Glasgow, Extra Units? i dont know if scotrail has went for the option of 10 extra 385s hitachi offered But such a route could make space for them there.

also the Bi mode 385 idea or Battery Powered trains could be a solution for Alloas Electrification

There is indeed a proposal to build a new chord at Charlestown Junction, leading west to south from the Kincardine line to the Fife Circle. If such a chord was built, it would avoid the need for reversing at Dunfermline or Cowdenbeath and eliminate that issue. The route for this link has been safeguarded by Fife Council - whether constructing the chord would be feasible is yet to be understood. This option, however, would mean any potential trains on the Kincardine line would not be able to serve Dunfermline Town heading to/from Edinburgh.

Network Rail have been looking at reopening the Kincardine line further, through Clackmannan and Kincardine to Longannet - this would include electrification. The latest development on this was a request for an environmental impact assessment for a potential station on the west of Kincardine in April. Perhaps the next step would be to continue to Dunfermline once the Fife Circle is electrified or battery trains are available.

 

[waverley47]

Wiring and new stations would come with extending the alloa service, as it's easy to extend a terminating service up the line, and very hard to create a new end to end line.

By that time, we'll have seen the new order for ScotRail units, which is likely to include wholesale replacement of the 318s and 320s. That leaves a few spare 385s which currently trundle around Strathclyde at dismal speeds, which could be used to extend the service.

Extending to Kincardine or Longannet would require one extra unit, so it could be done with the current fleet with some shuffling.

I doubt the chord at Dunfermline will ever be built, as you'd miss out serving the main station at the other end of the route. Why go as far as Dunfermline only to head south and not stop there?