Alstom job cuts at WCML depots.

[driver_m]

https://www.expressandstar.com/news...-to-200-jobs-from-pendolino-train-care-sites/

Around 200 jobs could go across the business that maintains the West Coast's Pendolino trains at five sites, including one in Wolverhampton.

The Alstom Traincare Centre at Oxley in Wolverhampton. It is one of five sites employing 1,200 people in total and the company aims to cut the workforce by around 200.

A Pendolino at the Alstom Traincare Centre at Oxley in Wolverhampton. It is one of five sites employing 1,200 people in total and the company aims to cut the workforce by around 200.
The Alstom Traincare Centre at Oxley in Wolverhampton. It is one of five sites employing 1,200 people in total and the company aims to cut the workforce by around 200.

The Oxley sidings is one of five sites that maintain and clean the trains and owner Alstom is planning a shake-up to make the operation more cost-effective....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's no imminent franchise change at ICWC, and the WCP operator hasn't been identified yet.
The regular upgrades of the Pendolino fleet are coming to and end I think, the current one being the repaint and internal refurb.
Alstom is taking on work at some depots for CAF fleets - Caledonian Sleeper, TPE etc.
There's also the impact of the new Alstom facility at Widnes, where I guess some refurb work might be located, rather than at franchise depots.
The workload at Chester, also an Alstom depot, is also bound to change if the 175 fleet is decommissioned, although it looks as though the W&B CAF fleet will go there.
Alstom itself continues to fail to win new rolling stock contracts.

 

[43096]

There's no imminent franchise change at ICWC, and the WCP operator hasn't been identified yet.

That’s the point, though. West Coast is being tendered at the moment and bidders will be making decisions on the fleet post HS2 opening. We have seen plenty of newer train fleets axed in recent bids, why not the same with the 390s? Getting rid of a complex, expensive to maintain fleet and replacing with something newer and cheaper might be attractive.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would find it unbelievable if 1970s HSTs are still trundling across the network whilst relatively new high-speed tilting 390s, about 25 years newer, are withdrawn!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That’s the point, though. West Coast is being tendered at the moment and bidders will be making decisions on the fleet post HS2 opening. We have seen plenty of newer train fleets axed in recent bids, why not the same with the 390s? Getting rid of a complex, expensive to maintain fleet and replacing with something newer and cheaper might be attractive.

There's no prospect of WCP building a new tilting fleet for the WCML, with HS2 in the offing.
More likely the WCP bidders are squeezing Alstom for the lowest price on the 390s for the time they have left.
Many of them could be off-lease by 2027-ish.
Alstom will of course be bidding (possibly with Siemens) for both the new fleet and its maintenance, as well as the 390s.

 

[43096]

There's no prospect of WCP building a new tilting fleet for the WCML, with HS2 in the offing.
More likely the WCP bidders are squeezing Alstom for the lowest price on the 390s for the time they have left.
Many of them could be off-lease by 2027-ish.
Alstom will of course be bidding (possibly with Siemens) for both the new fleet and its maintenance, as well as the 390s.

Where did I say any 390 replacement fleet would be tilting?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where did I say any 390 replacement fleet would be tilting?

What else can deliver the VHF timetable prior to HS2?

 

[HLE]

No need to replace them - what would you replace them with? Like for like as it wouldn’t be an upgrade.

A lot more stock needs replacing before the 390’s.

Let’s not have newish stock being replaced by new.

 

[43096]

No need to replace them - what would you replace them with? Like for like as it wouldn’t be an upgrade.

A lot more stock needs replacing before the 390’s.

Let’s not have newish stock being replaced by new.

It’s a bit late for that. Classes 360, 379, 458 and 707 all slated for replacement.

The point is that post-HS2 the current West Coast becomes a very different railway as it no longer has the prime IC service. So replacing Pendolinos with something cheaper to lease and maintain (and doesn’t tilt) is very much an option: Bombardier, Hitachi, Siemens, CAF and Stadler would all be capable of building a 110-125mph unit that would fulfill that role.

That may be one reason why Alstom is looking at its cost base.

 

[Mikey C]

It’s a bit late for that. Classes 360, 379, 458 and 707 all slated for replacement.

The point is that post-HS2 the current West Coast becomes a very different railway as it no longer has the prime IC service. So replacing Pendolinos with something cheaper to lease and maintain (and doesn’t tilt) is very much an option: Bombardier, Hitachi, Siemens, CAF and Stadler would all be capable of building a 110-125mph unit that would fulfill that role.

That may be one reason why Alstom is looking at its cost base.

But that's surely a long way off? HS2 will radically change the services that run on the WCML, but even phase 1 won't happen for 8 years, with phase 2 not due to open until 2033, which is 15 years away!

By that time the Pendolinos will be pretty much life expired anyway

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The ITT asks bidders (and therefore Alstom) to include classic fleet costs until 2031, including maintenance and depot strategy.
This is supposed to include the first 5 years of HS2 operation, but the DfT wants options to continue with the classic fleet in case of delayed completion of HS2.
The HS2 fleet, when it comes, is planned to be maintained by the manufacturer at a new depot at Washwood Heath (ironically, where the initial 390 fleet was assembled).
This will be on a separate HS2 procurement contract to the WCP franchise.

 

[edwin_m]

I suppose it's remotely possible a WCP bidder will want to extend the order of classic compatibles to replace the 390s early. Can't see why they would want to, but strange things sometimes happen in franchising.

 

[43096]

The ITT asks bidders (and therefore Alstom) to include classic fleet costs until 2031, including maintenance and depot strategy.
This is supposed to include the first 5 years of HS2 operation, but the DfT wants options to continue with the classic fleet in case of delayed completion of HS2.

As far as I can see it does not mandate use of 390s. In fact the ITT states this:
“5.12.1 Bidders may propose the use of existing or newly-built rolling stock under this Sub-Plan.”

So my point about ditching 390s being an option still stands.

 

[HSTEd]

But that's surely a long way off? HS2 will radically change the services that run on the WCML, but even phase 1 won't happen for 8 years, with phase 2 not due to open until 2033, which is 15 years away!

By that time the Pendolinos will be pretty much life expired anyway

The bidder might propose moving to Classic Compatibles early.
Advances in traction technology in the last 20 years might allow high enough acceleration to partially ameliorate the loss of tilting.
Although that would require a total recast of the entire timetable.

(After all, a 9 car 390 only has 12 powered axles, which is rather less than say a Class 395 of the same length would have!)

 

[The Planner]

It would still need some brutal acceleration to bridge the gap. A Pendo stopping at Watford and MK can do it in about 18 minutes, a 350 is going to be around 20.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The WCP bidders are not procuring the Classic Compatibles, HS2 Ltd is doing that, on a different timescale to that for the letting of the WCP franchise.
In fact the WCP bids for the pre-HS2 period will essentially be complete now, with just 3 weeks before they have to be in.
So while an innovative rolling stock solution might be forthcoming for Stephenson route services post-HS2, I don't see NR's LNW Route ditching tilt before the WCP/HS2 partnership is established, and maybe not even then.
There is no NR work identified in CP6 to reconfigure the WCML.
Nor will there be much of a DfT appetite for a complete recast of the VHF timetable before HS2, after recent events.