Alternative service patterns for the CLC (Liverpool-Manchester) line

[Bletchleyite]

The regular commuters from Warrington, Birchwood, Widnes and South Parkway want to retain the semi-fast services to Manchester and Liverpool, not have them replaced by an all shacks crawl.

The proposal I've made a few times would solve that.

Four trains per hour to Manchester Oxford Road (possibly 2 of which to the Airport if there are paths, primarily so Picc is served directly).

Two of them to be Liverpool, South Parkway, Widnes, Warrington West if they absolutely must, Warrington Central then all stations to Manchester
Two of them to be Liverpool, all stations to Warrington Central, then Birchwood, possibly Irlam, Urmston, Oxford Road etc

Each pair should be evenly spaced so stations served have a proper half hourly clockface service all day. All trains to be operated using 3-car Class 195s (for the excellent acceleration and quality), with a 2-car set added for strengthening in the peaks. The EMT service to either be truncated to Manchester or run via Denton to Victoria and via the CLC to Liverpool (having the benefit of getting an end doored unit off 13/14).

This would be punctual (particularly if truncated to Oxford Road bay) and would offer the capacity and level of service needed. It would mean no through service from Warrington C to Nottingham and the likes, but how many people do that? My observation was always that those trains tipped out somewhat at Manchester.

 

[Bevan Price]

As others have also suggested, I think they should return to the "old" arrangement, with the local services split into two halves at Warrington Central.
So Liverpool to Warrington Central, all stations, 2 tph.
Warrington Central to Manchester Oxford Road, all stations 2 tph.
(Maybe at off-peak, some of the lesser used stations might have stops 1 tph)

Liverpool to Manchester Piccadilly & beyond, semi-fasts, 2 tph. Calling at South Parkway, Widnes, Warrington Central, Oxford Road & Piccadilly. In addition, one of these would call at Warrington West, the other would call at Birchwood.

Beyond Manchester, one, as now, would continue to Sheffield & Nottingham. I suppose politicians would want the other to go to Manchester Airport, but personally I would rather see it go to Sheffield and then be linked to the Sheffield - Doncaster - Hull services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As others have also suggested, I think they should return to the "old" arrangement, with the local services split into two halves at Warrington Central.
So Liverpool to Warrington Central, all stations, 2 tph.
Warrington Central to Manchester Oxford Road, all stations 2 tph.
(Maybe at off-peak, some of the lesser used stations might have stops 1 tph)

For the record, the old service at the Manchester end was rather sparser than that. I think it was 1tph, of which some only went as far as Irlam. Humphrey Park/Trafford Park/Chassen Road only got 2-hourly.

 

[Kite159]

*Crayonist Time*
It's a shame when Warrington West was being built, they didn't build some loops along the same time [ignoring the cost/practicalities of providing said loop] to allow stoppers to get looped by a faster train.

Either that or send the Nottingham service via Chat Moss [or even cut it back to Piccadilly to remove a path via Castlefield] In my experience those trains have a good turnover of passengers in Manchester.

If you provide a decent level of service to those Manchester stations, then passenger numbers might increase.

The ultimate solution would be to wire the line up, its a bit like the Shotts line with the connections at either end mostly complete [can't remember where the wires run out from South Parkway, but the connection at the junction I think has been done for access to the depot], and compared to some lines it isn't that complex [in terms of junctions/loops etc]. The sort of line which could be closed for a couple week blockade for the wiring teams to make good head-way, other than at the Trafford Park end the line doesn't carry that much freight?

 

[Greybeard33]

The proposal I've made a few times would solve that.

Four trains per hour to Manchester Oxford Road (possibly 2 of which to the Airport if there are paths, primarily so Picc is served directly).

Two of them to be Liverpool, South Parkway, Widnes, Warrington West if they absolutely must, Warrington Central then all stations to Manchester
Two of them to be Liverpool, all stations to Warrington Central, then Birchwood, possibly Irlam, Urmston, Oxford Road etc

Each pair should be evenly spaced so stations served have a proper half hourly clockface service all day. All trains to be operated using 3-car Class 195s (for the excellent acceleration and quality), with a 2-car set added for strengthening in the peaks. The EMT service to either be truncated to Manchester or run via Denton to Victoria and via the CLC to Liverpool (having the benefit of getting an end doored unit off 13/14).

This would be punctual (particularly if truncated to Oxford Road bay) and would offer the capacity and level of service needed. It would mean no through service from Warrington C to Nottingham and the likes, but how many people do that? My observation was always that those trains tipped out somewhat at Manchester.

Some major problems with this proposal:

• Oxford Road P1 & the P5 bay (normally used for CLC reversals) are only 105m long, so cannot take a 195 formation longer than 2x2-car. P3 Up is even shorter, so only the main through platforms P2 & P4 can accomodate a 5-car formation. There is only capacity for 2tph to continue through Piccadilly; therefore the other 2tph could not be longer than 3- or 4-car even in the peaks.
• A number of the lesser CLC stations, both sides of Warrington, also have platforms too short for a 5-car and so SDO would have to be used. This would increase dwell times and extend journey times in the peaks. Humphrey Park is only 68m, meaning one unit could be completely off the platform - and 195s have no end corridor connection!
• Manchester Airport would probably not have platform capacity for an additional hourly service, especially if longer than 4-car, so it would have to run through to Wilmslow instead.
• Stockport to Victoria via Denton and Ashton Moss would be ludicrously slow compared with the current EMR service to Piccadilly, and it is doubtful if suitable paths through to Liverpool could be found via this route. On the other hand, there would be considerable opposition to splitting the long standing Liverpool - Sheffield/Nottingham service in Manchester. Especially since the connection would entail the long trek between the Piccadilly main shed and P13/14.

 

[HSTEd]

Ofcourse if the line was electrified it is likely that the all shacks train could match the current "semi-fast" service in journey times.

High acceleration EMU could cut the all shacks journey time down to under an hour at the very least, from the current ~75 minutes.

The question is, what can we achieve with modern diesel units?
Even if a Class 195 is much faster than a Sprinter, how much faster is it?

 

[Philip]

Why is it so vital to keep the half hourly semi-fast service on the CLC anyway? Liverpool has existing fast services to Manchester via Chat Moss and likewise Warrington has a half hourly semi-fast to Manchester from Bank Quay.