Another landslip on the SWML (01/12/23)

[Deepgreen]

BBC News is carrying a story about large and deep cracks and some movement in the cutting slope just east of St. Johns road bridge at Woking. I think this slope was denuded of trees some time back (I might be wrong, but it's certainly oddly bare). Two of the four lines are reportedly going to be used during remedial works, so presumably the two up lines will become one up and one down.

South Western Railway disruption due to urgent landslip works

Cracks up to 45m long and a metre deep have been found in a slope next to a train track.

www.bbc.co.uk

Train passengers are being advised to avoid travelling next week due to emergency works to repair a landslip.

Services will be significantly reduced between Woking and Basingstoke from Friday 8 December to Sunday 10 December - affecting routes to Salisbury, Southampton and Bournemouth - Network Rail said.

It follows the discovery of cracks of up to 45m (148ft) long and 1m (3ft) deep in places in a slope next to the railway near Woking.

 

[slicedbread]

BBC News is carrying a story about large and deep cracks and some movement in the cutting slope just east of St. Johns road bridge at Woking. I think this slope was denuded of trees some time back (I might be wrong, but it's certainly oddly bare). Two of the four lines are reportedly going to be used during remedial works, so presumably the two up lines will become one up and one down.

South Western Railway disruption due to urgent landslip works

Cracks up to 45m long and a metre deep have been found in a slope next to a train track.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bit more info from the swr website:

Planned Improvements & Engineering Works | South Western Railway

Get information on our planned engineering works and rail network improvement information.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Landslip repairs between Brookwood and Woking​

On Friday 8, Saturday 9 and Sunday 10 December, we are advising customers, who are planning to travel on services that run on the line between Woking and Basingstoke, to only travel if their journeys are absolutely necessary.


If you must travel, please check your journey using a journey planner. Journey planners will be fully up to date on Sunday 3 December.
Please see our Plan My Journey page for more information.

What’s going on?​

In late November, a small landslip occurred at a 100-metre-long slope in a railway cutting between Woking and Brookwood. Network Rail engineers discovered cracks up to 45 metres long, 50cm wide and one metre deep in some places.
For the safety of our customers and colleagues, a 20mph speed restriction was imposed on one of the four lines through the area.
In order to prevent further landslips, and repair the cutting as quickly as possible, engineers will need to access two of the four tracks in the area and install 170 sheet piles - 10-metre-long pieces of steel, driven into the ground at the base of the slope.
With fewer tracks available, and with trains having to be manually signalled through the area by Network Rail engineers using red and green ‘hand signals’, we will not be able to run our normal number of services.

What dates will be affected?​

On Wednesday 6 a strike timetable will be running – for more information, visit our strike page.
On Thursday 7 a normal service will run.
On Friday 8, Saturday 9 and Sunday 10, fewer trains will run between Woking and Basingstoke.

What services will run?​

Due to track and signalling restrictions, we will only be able to run three trains per hour in each direction, down from the normal 9 services in a standard hour.
The following services will be affected:

• London Waterloo-Weymouth
• London Waterloo-Alton
• London Waterloo-Basingstoke (stopping)
• London Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour via Basingstoke
• West of England services

Additionally, due to the location of the landslip, trains FROM London Waterloo will not be able to call at Brookwood. Rail replacement bus services will operate instead from Woking to Brookwood.

 

[Ian Hardy]

The fact that Down services will not be serving Brookwood, suggests that the Down services will probably be using the UP Fast from Woking London End to the UP Fast to Down Fast trailing crossover beyond Brookwood. Although the revised schedules aren't on Real Time Trains yet.

 

[slicedbread]

The fact that Down services will not be serving Brookwood, suggests that the Down services will probably be using the UP Fast from Woking London End to the UP Fast to Down Fast trailing crossover beyond Brookwood. Although the revised schedules aren't on Real Time Trains yet.

SWR have also put a little animation on you tube

It shows the down lines closed and the up lines to be used for both directions

 

[Ian Hardy]

SWR have also put a little animation on you tube

It shows the down lines closed and the up lines to be used for both directions

But the track layout shown at Woking station is on a par with politicians understanding the COVID rules. It gives the impression that the only lines going between Woking and Basingstoke are those from platforms 1 & 2 at Woking and that there are a pair of fast lines between platforms 1 and 2. Also you can only go to and from Guildford from platforms 4 & 5.

No wonder SWR cannot run a train service when they publish rubbish like this, which is completely wrong the lines diverge west of Woking, not east of Woking.

 

[Freightmaster]

No wonder SWR cannot run a train service when they publish rubbish like this, which is completely wrong the lines diverge west of Woking, not east of Woking.

Hush Hush top secret remodelling plans for CP7 released by mistake?!

 

[DelW]

But the track layout shown at Woking station is on a par with politicians understanding the COVID rules. It gives the impression that the only lines going between Woking and Basingstoke are those from platforms 1 & 2 at Woking and that there are a pair of fast lines between platforms 1 and 2. Also you can only go to and from Guildford from platforms 4 & 5.

No wonder SWR cannot run a train service when they publish rubbish like this, which is completely wrong the lines diverge west of Woking, not east of Woking.

I was puzzled by this as well, since it suggests that up trains off the Direct will run into Woking p4, which I've never experienced.

But looking at the Quail diagram, it identifies the crossing between up Guildford and down main fast tracks as a "switch diamond". That *possibly* means that the layout could be used as per the animation, with p4 used by up Direct services (down on p5 as normal). Up main services would use p1 and down main would use the crossovers east of the station to reach p2.

How that would be signalled is another matter, but all platform lines are shown as reversible. If it happens I'm tempted to pop up there next weekend to see it in action!

 

[Ian Hardy]

Hush Hush top secret remodelling plans for CP7 released by mistake?!

Very good

I was puzzled by this as well, since it suggests that up trains off the Direct will run into Woking p4, which I've never experienced.

But looking at the Quail diagram, it identifies the crossing between up Guildford and down main fast tracks as a "switch diamond". That *possibly* means that the layout could be used as per the animation, with p4 used by up Direct services (down on p5 as normal). Up main services would use p1 and down main would use the crossovers east of the station to reach p2.

How that would be signalled is another matter, but all platform lines are shown as reversible. If it happens I'm tempted to pop up there next weekend to see it in action!

On 21/04/2019 my Guildford to Waterloo service called at Woking platform 4.

There are a pair of crossovers between the UP Guildford and the DN Guildford at about 25.00, the facing crossover is the one that my service used and then it ran along the DN Guildford and the DN Slow and crossed over onto the DN Fast at 24.62.

Switch diamonds are not double slips and do not allow trains to change lines (see this picture - not mine https://twitter.com/KentishHack/status/1227517320999952384).

Ian Hardy

 

[mwmbwls]

Can I commend this recent wham bam presentation by Gareth Dennis to the PWI.

This land slip is a not an isolated incident but is an indication of the shape of things to come.

 

[DelW]

Very good

On 21/04/2019 my Guildford to Waterloo service called at Woking platform 4.

There are a pair of crossovers between the UP Guildford and the DN Guildford at about 25.00, the facing crossover is the one that my service used and then it ran along the DN Guildford and the DN Slow and crossed over onto the DN Fast at 24.62.

Switch diamonds are not double slips and do not allow trains to change lines (see this picture - not mine https://twitter.com/KentishHack/status/1227517320999952384).

Ian Hardy

Ah, thanks for the correction re switch diamonds.

I suppose Woking could still operate as per the animation if it's feasible to accommodate up and down Guildford line services using single line working via the down as in your example. It's not clear to me what the benefits would be though. It's probably just an over-simplified animation, but I guess time will tell.

 

[Flange Squeal]

But the track layout shown at Woking station is on a par with politicians understanding the COVID rules. It gives the impression that the only lines going between Woking and Basingstoke are those from platforms 1 & 2 at Woking and that there are a pair of fast lines between platforms 1 and 2. Also you can only go to and from Guildford from platforms 4 & 5.

No wonder SWR cannot run a train service when they publish rubbish like this, which is completely wrong the lines diverge west of Woking, not east of Woking.

I can’t help but think it’s primarily just designed to be a basic diagram to try explain it to the wider general public, hence separated up and down main lines they can colour in pairs, and a separate set of (four!) lines heading down towards Guildford (with two of these not having platform faces between platforms 4 and 5).

 

[TEW]

I was puzzled by this as well, since it suggests that up trains off the Direct will run into Woking p4, which I've never experienced.

But looking at the Quail diagram, it identifies the crossing between up Guildford and down main fast tracks as a "switch diamond". That *possibly* means that the layout could be used as per the animation, with p4 used by up Direct services (down on p5 as normal). Up main services would use p1 and down main would use the crossovers east of the station to reach p2.

How that would be signalled is another matter, but all platform lines are shown as reversible. If it happens I'm tempted to pop up there next weekend to see it in action!

Up trains from Guildford using platform 4 at Woking is not that unusual when there's late running. Depending on how the single line working is set up for trains towards Basingstoke it may be necessary that day.

 

[Class 170101]

The fact that Down services will not be serving Brookwood, suggests that the Down services will probably be using the UP Fast from Woking London End to the UP Fast to Down Fast trailing crossover beyond Brookwood. Although the revised schedules aren't on Real Time Trains yet.

Also no service from Guildford towards Aldershot is possible either.

 

[TEW]

Also no service from Guildford towards Aldershot is possible either.

Guildford towards Aldershot is fine, it's Woking towards Aldershot that cannot be served. The lines through Aldershot are closed Saturday and Sunday anyway, but on Friday 1tph will run between Waterloo and Alton, diverted via Guildford in the down direction.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I can’t help but think it’s primarily just designed to be a basic diagram to try explain it to the wider general public

That's exactly what it is.

 

[Horizon22]

I can’t help but think it’s primarily just designed to be a basic diagram to try explain it to the wider general public, hence separated up and down main lines they can colour in pairs, and a separate set of (four!) lines heading down towards Guildford (with two of these not having platform faces between platforms 4 and 5).

Definitely. Trying to explain a full track layout & various points and junctions would be confusing - you might as well have just taken an screenshot of Open Train Times maps / Tracksy / CCF if that was the aim.

 

[GrahamA]

BBC News is carrying a story about large and deep cracks and some movement in the cutting slope just east of St. Johns road bridge at Woking. I think this slope was denuded of trees some time back (I might be wrong, but it's certainly oddly bare). Two of the four lines are reportedly going to be used during remedial works, so presumably the two up lines will become one up and one down.

South Western Railway disruption due to urgent landslip works

Cracks up to 45m long and a metre deep have been found in a slope next to a train track.

www.bbc.co.uk

The actual location is by the road bridge that links Hook Heath Avenue and St Johns Hill Road - not St Johns Road.

The trees on the bank were cleared a couple of years ago when (I believe) some improvements to drainage were made.

Since then there were many small sensor sticks installed in the slope so they obviously had concerns about the bank then.

The pic attached was taken by me whilst walking the dog on 24th November. I think this was soon after a slip had happened. It certainly hadn't been there the previous time I walked past.

 

[Deepgreen]

I wonder if this lends any weight to the concept that trees' roots stabilise slopes like this (and wonder why this particular small area was cleared). I also question how many passengers looking at the SWR animation understand 'up' and 'down' directions rather than north and southbound, for example. The video also talks of a "normal service" from Woking to Waterloo, but I suspect it won't be, given the disruption overall.

 

[hwl]

I wonder if this lends any weight to the concept that trees' roots stabilise slopes like this (and wonder why this particular small area was cleared).

Potential stabilisation depends on many factors (soil type. slope angle and root geometry). With the wrong soil types, slope angles, larger trees and roots that tend to grow parallel to the surface you get destabilisation. in this case it looks like the roots have been creating a nice shear zone. for a long time.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Looks like the situation has deteriorated, all 4 lines are blocked between Woking and Brookwood. London bound services being terminated at Basingstoke. Doesn't appear to have been any through services since around midday.

 

[davews]

From SWR journey check:
Due to Safety checks being made to a bridge between Brookwood and Woking all lines are blocked.
What's Going On:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
What We're Doing About It:
We have been informed of safety checks being made of a bridge between Brookwood and Woking. As a result, all lines are blocked after specialist teams have inspected the site.

Is the bridge inspection related to the bank issues?

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Is the bridge inspection related to the bank issues?

There is a bridge right next to the area where the bank has slipped, see the second photograph in the BBC article linked in the first post. St Johns Hill Road bridge it would seem. https://maps.app.goo.gl/R1agXKRtrReVpgbC9

 

[londonmidland]

From Paul Clifton on Twitter/X a few minutes ago:

Looks like a bridge is collapsing over the @SW_Help railway between Woking and Brookwood. This could hardly be more dramatic. Same area as the landslip @NetworkRailWssx

The picture appears to show some structural damage to the base of the bridge, with cracks in the brickwork. From this angle it looks like the bridge is slightly leaning too.

 

[swt_passenger]

From Paul Clifton on Twitter/X a few minutes ago:



The picture appears to show some structural damage to the base of the bridge, with cracks in the brickwork. From this angle it looks like the bridge is slightly leaning too.

That’s not the same bridge pictured in the BBC article in post #1 though, (as suggested by @FuzzyDuck in post #22), it’s a lightweight footbridge about another half a mile to the west of the reported landslip at St John’s Hill Rd. Probably too far away to be the same cause, although it doesn’t look good.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

This bridge at road level is single carriageway, protected by traffic signals at both ends. It has during heavy rainfall been subject to standing water of several inches depth on a regular basis (I would estimate in the region of kerb depth - 6 inches) so perhaps a drainage issue under the road surface? Having driven very cautiously through such floods on the bridge, which I now believe have been the cause of electrical equipment (starter motor) damage to my ride I do wonder what such water retainment on the road surface above, will, over time and on many occasions, have on the structure below. Something is definitely amiss with this bridge.
For reference re the slip, I attach a fairly recent image I took from this bridge. For those unfamiliar with the location, the slip has occured to the bank on the right hand side of the image, the train being on the Down Fast Line.

 

[swt_passenger]

delete please

 

[Big Jumby 74]

That’s not the same bridge pictured in the BBC article in post #1 though, (as suggested by @FuzzyDuck in post #22), it’s a footbridge another half a mile to the west of the reported landslip at St John’s Hill Rd

Whilst I have never looked under St Johns Road bridge, I would concur with your comments. The picture posted above by londonmidland would seem to be the foot bridge west of St Johns Road, which is nearer the gulf course and connects with St Johns Lye on the North side of the line.
As for the site of the slip at St Johns Road bridge , I was stopped at the lights at the head of a cue only the other day, and was met with the site of several NR vans parked up and much orange HV hanging around..!

 

[swt_passenger]

Whilst I have never looked under St Johns Road bridge, I would concur with your comments. The picture posted above by londonmidland would seem to be the foot bridge west of St Johns Road, which is nearer the gulf course and connects with St Johns Lye on the North side of the line.
As for the site of the slip at St Johns Road bridge , I was stopped at the lights at the head of a cue only the other day, and was met with the site of several NR vans parked up and much orange HV hanging around..!

I’ve just double checked on a cab ride video, the bridge at St John’s Road, (as BBC link in post #1), is a fairly normal brick arch with 3 massive piers, the bridge Paul Clifton has since linked to the same issue is definitely not part of the same site.

 

[deepeetw]

I’ve just double checked on a cab ride video, the bridge at St John’s Road, (as BBC link in post #1), is a fairly normal brick arch with 3 massive piers, the bridge Paul Clifton has since linked to the same issue is definitely not part of the same site.

I believe 2/89 is a pedestrian overbridge located by Woking Golf Club.

 

[winks]

No trains southbound to Winchester or London bound pretty much. Another disastrous day on SWR. I notice this time round the company have said pretty quickly that taxis being sought by passengers will be refunded on proof of train ticket and receipt from the Taxis firm.