Anytime single a different price with railcard depending on time selected when purchasing ticket

[Pdf]

My group is travelling from Whitechapel to Stanstead Airport. We have a 26-30 and 60+ railcard between us.

When buying an anytime single ticket on the Greater Anglia website, the price is listed at £16.55 all day for the 26-30 railcard, but for the 60+ the price is £24.90 before 9:30am and £16.55 after despite both prices being for an anytime single ticket (i.e. the railcard discount only applies if you pick an off peak train even though this isn't an off peak ticket).

Any idea what's going on here? I assume something to do with off peak fares not being available on this route. Would we get away with buying the cheaper anytime single and using it on the earlier train given it should work all day?

 

[jfollows]

£12 minimum with 26-30 railcard so this doesn’t apply here (fare >£12).
Senior Railcard has restrictions on use in London/SE before 09:30 (mainly):

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area – network-railcard.co.uk/map) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

The map link is broken, see https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/about-the-railcard/using-your-railcard/ instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Senior Railcard has time restrictions on a weekday within the South East regardless of ticket type:

"The only restriction is morning Peak time services, Monday to Friday (not including public holidays) when journeys are made wholly within the London and South East Network Railcard area. See Time Restrictions for more details."

Senior Railcard | National Rail

Special offer: Senior Railcard. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

I believe the definition of "peak" is normally the time when the Off Peak isn't available, but if there isn't one I think it uses a flat 0930.

 

[Pdf]

I see. I always thought all railcard restrictions were based on the type of ticket, but I guess not. Thanks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see. I always thought all railcard restrictions were based on the type of ticket, but I guess not. Thanks.

Almost none of them are, in fact. The Railcard's own terms sit on top of those of any ticket; you have to read both and apply the strictest combination.

 

[Haywain]

I believe the definition of "peak" is normally the time when the Off Peak isn't available, but if there isn't one I think it uses a flat 0930.

In this case the Off Peak Day Return is valid from 09:30.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What time is the journey leg from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport? Presume the Senior railcard discounted tickets are valid on the 0940 onwards. Just need a separate ticket from Whitechapel to Liverpool St.

 

[TUC]

I do find it odd why there should be different conditions for railcards within the South East area. Yes, there's case for restrictions on London commuter routes, but it seems to be more based on the existence of the Network Railcard. Why should having that in place negate other railcards also being valid at the same times as the rest of the country?

 

[JonathanH]

I do find it odd why there should be different conditions for railcards within the South East area. Yes, there's case for restrictions on London commuter routes, but it seems to be more based on the existence of the Network Railcard.

The morning peak restrictions on the Senior Railcard and Family Railcard in the South East were put in place by Network South East in 1992. That is why they align with the area covered by the Network Railcard.

I remember the leaflet they issued at the time which stated that most people using the Senior and Family Railcards did so after the morning peak and that is when there would be more room for leisure travellers.

Why should having that in place negate other railcards also being valid at the same times as the rest of the country?

Network South East saw it as a way of ensuring that the railcards couldn't be used for peak travel, for example for people who continued to work after age 60, or who took their children with them on their commute (which does happen where a workplace and school are nearby).

There has never been cause to unwind the restriction over the next 30 years.

 

[Djgr]

I do find it odd why there should be different conditions for railcards within the South East area. Yes, there's case for restrictions on London commuter routes, but it seems to be more based on the existence of the Network Railcard. Why should having that in place negate other railcards also being valid at the same times as the rest of the country?

Or alternatively why shouldn't the rest of the country have access to a Network Railcard type product? Doesn't this swing both ways?

 

[Haywain]

Or alternatively why shouldn't the rest of the country have access to a Network Railcard type product?

Along with the same restrictions on other railcards?

 

[redreni]

If the journey begins at Whitechapel, presumably the ticket is Zone U1-3 to Stanstead Airport? The LU portion normally isn't subject to the ticket restrictions in terms of peak times (which can be one of the benefits of a through ticket as opposed to using PAYG to reach the rail terminal). I guess the Greater Anglia site is applying the Railcard restriction to the LU leg, though.

You could book this through the forum's site using "London Underground Zones 1-3" as the origin - that will happily give you an itinerary on the 09.40 from Liverpool Street but your ticket will let you start your journey at Whitechapel (or any other London Underground, DLR or core Elizabeth Line station in Zones 1-3). But obviously that isn't actually giving you an itinerary to travel before 09.30

That would mean you'd have to leave Whitechapel before 09:30 to connect with the 09.40 Stansted Express. I doubt very much whether TfL gateline staff or even RPIs on the Elizabeth Line would care about the 09.30 restriction on your Railcard, but I must confess I'm not in a position to advise whether or not this is technically valid. Arguably it isn't.

The alternative would be to book the Senior Railcard-discounted ticket from Liverpool St to Stansted and use contactless or Oyster PAYG between Whitechapel and Liverpool St.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I remember the leaflet they issued at the time which stated that most people using the Senior and Family Railcards did so after the morning peak and that is when there would be more room for leisure travellers.

Attempting to not allow the railcard to be used for traditional commuting is a feature on nearly all or all railcard restrictions.

Senior railcards for journeys starting inside the Network area to travel outside don't have the morning restrtiction. That makes a certain amount of sense for a trip that may last several hours where even for leisure travel you may wish to leave early.

 

[Haywain]

Senior railcards for journeys starting inside the Network area to travel outside don't have the morning restrtiction. That makes a certain amount of sense for a trip that may last several hours where even for leisure travel you may wish to leave early.

That was really designed to work with the erstwhile 'Network rule' for ticket restrictions but the restrictions are much more onerous now than they used to be. Generally, I don't find a discount on an Anytime ticket as being much encouragement to travel those longer distances earlier!