Aslef strikes over Trains Modernisation plan

[Mawkie]

There are some significant technical challenges that the contracting organisation is required to understand.

There certainly are, however I remember a female train operator being traumatised by a group of men breaking into her cab and grabbing her wrists, manhandling her in a most threatening way. That was 2018, when I recall the discussions about cab security started really ramping up. One of the Reps told me at the time that a cab security trial on the W&C line was nearly finalised and the company would be in position to roll out improved cab security across the combine 'soon'.

6 years later.... tumbleweed.

It seems to staff that 'modernisation' can be almost instant when it benefits the company, but modernisation that benefits staff takes literally years.

 

[leonie13]

Sort of.

The thing is that everyone knows there’s stuff going on behind closed doors, and LU has a vile tendency for rumours to circulate, what happens is those rumours become louder and more frequent, then turn out to be largely true.

It’s hard to think of any other business which lauds itself on being seemingly permanently in a “state of change”. Those who have been around a while come to learn that this is really the product of managements lasting for increasingly short lengths of time, so new managements arrive and start implementing stuff which to them seems fresh and new, not realising that it’s all part of a perennial revolving door. Unfortunately for staff this is all highly demoralising, so it’s no surprise if unions want to try and be ahead of the game. LU has increasingly become a case study in how NOT to conduct employee relations and get the best out of staff.

Worth also remembering that LU has carried out a number of re-orgs over recent years which have turned out to be total disasters. The Fit For The Future - Stations being the prime example, but not the only one. LU must be world leader in cutting its nose off to spite its face. LU’s real problem is their managers aren’t effective enough to make things work, with this fundamental problem they can re-organise to their hearts content, but whatever structure they have will always suffer from this basic flaw. Their management simply isn’t effective enough, but they seem to think the solution is to throw all the pieces up in the air and hope they land better, which of course they don’t.

I’d add that one of the big problems right now is LU/TfL’s obsession with graduates.

It seems grads quickly get parachuted into senior or centurion manager roles, with little (or no) operational experience and subsequently try to ‘reinvent the wheel’, without realising such consequences in a highly unionised industry. There’s no maliciousness to it, as such, they just don’t understand that this isn't the private sector. They think reorganisation is the quickest and most effective way of getting noticed.

There’s plenty of ambitious staff in operational grades with 10/15/20 years experience who possess the capability to be promoted to centurion positions, and then make changes with union involvement, but they don’t get a look-in because of this ‘grad obsession’.

 

[43066]

There certainly are, however I remember a female train operator being traumatised by a group of men breaking into her cab and grabbing her wrists, manhandling her in a most threatening way. That was 2018, when I recall the discussions about cab security started really ramping up. One of the Reps told me at the time that a cab security trial on the W&C line was nearly finalised and the company would be in position to roll out improved cab security across the combine 'soon'.

6 years later.... tumbleweed.

It seems to staff that 'modernisation' can be almost instant when it benefits the company, but modernisation that benefits staff takes literally years.

Something along the lines of what airlines have to control cockpit access might be appropriate: an entry button in the saloon which will sound an alert in the cab, and will allow entry within a few seconds if it isn’t actively cancelled by a staff member inside. That way an occupied cab can be kept secure, but access can be gained to an empty cab, or if the driver is unresponsive.

Of course that would involve spending money. On the big railway there’s little attention paid to cab security, more effort is being put into trying to invent ways to get cameras into cabs!

 

[Nym]

On the big railway we no longer operate through single bore tunnels…

(Edit, other than Moorgate)

One does wonder what consideration has been given to interlocking non active cabs that still have controls that would be capable of disabling movement…

 

[43066]

On the big railway we no longer operate through single bore tunnels…

(Edit, other than Moorgate)

One does wonder what consideration has been given to interlocking non active cabs that still have controls that would be capable of disabling movement…

LU need a cab access method that doesn’t involve keys, which a system along the lines I’ve suggested might solve, while improving personal security for T-ops. The key based system we have on the mainline isn’t infallible from a security point of view, as they can fall into the wrong hands.

EDIT: what is the arrangement on the Moorgate branch? I assume key access as normal, but that’s deemed acceptable “because it’s always been that way”, or due to the short time spent in the tunnels?

 

[SargeNpton]

On the big railway we no longer operate through single bore tunnels…

(Edit, other than Moorgate)

One does wonder what consideration has been given to interlocking non active cabs that still have controls that would be capable of disabling movement…

Liverpool Loop. Linslade Up Slow and Down Fast. I'm sure there must be others.

 

[Nym]

Does Linslade require end evacuation routes…?

 

[74A]

On the big railway we no longer operate through single bore tunnels…

Ledbury tunnel between Colwall and Ledbury is single bore. I think that's why GWR don't operate 10 car IETs through it.

 

[Dstock7080]

Something along the lines of what airlines have to control cockpit access might be appropriate: an entry button in the saloon which will sound an alert in the cab, and will allow entry within a few seconds if it isn’t actively cancelled by a staff member inside. That way an occupied cab can be kept secure, but access can be gained to an empty cab, or if the driver is unresponsive.

This is very similar to the devises to be fitted
As at November the timeline was:
‘92 4/2025
‘96 6/2025
S7 8/2025
‘09 10/2025
‘95 12/2025
‘72 2/2026
S8 3/2026
but this has slipped further until end of 2026.
2024 Stock will be fitted from new

 

[43066]

This is very similar to the devises to be fitted
As at November the timeline was:
‘92 4/2025
‘96 6/2025
S7 8/2025
‘09 10/2025
‘95 12/2025
‘72 2/2026
S8 3/2026
but this has slipped further until end of 2026.
2024 Stock will be fitted from new

Good to hear I was in the right ballpark with that suggestion! Any idea why is been pushed back so far?

 

[Nym]

I suspect it’s something to do with TfLs engineering organisations inability to deliver projects…
As evidence by basically every TfL project

 

[notverydeep]

I’d add that one of the big problems right now is LU/TfL’s obsession with graduates.

It seems grads quickly get parachuted into senior or centurion manager roles, with little (or no) operational experience and subsequently try to ‘reinvent the wheel’, without realising such consequences in a highly unionised industry. There’s no maliciousness to it, as such, they just don’t understand that this isn't the private sector. They think reorganisation is the quickest and most effective way of getting noticed.

There’s plenty of ambitious staff in operational grades with 10/15/20 years experience who possess the capability to be promoted to centurion positions, and then make changes with union involvement, but they don’t get a look-in because of this ‘grad obsession’.

Early on in my career, I encountered the rather curious culture in operations that surrounds “grads”. The term is not really used to refer to anyone who has been to University and has a degree (basically that would include 80% of all office based staff, whether managers or not and is likely true of a good proportion operational recruits and new Train Operators over the last decade given the proportion of the population that now go to University). Instead it specifically refers to those who have been through the Graduate Training Scheme. Yet in recent years this method of training has dwindled to a handful of engineers and other specialists. It is the apprentice schemes that now dominate this area of direct recruitment. The intake for these schemes will include some people with University degrees, but also includes those coming straight from school.

 

[boiledbeans2]

It seems grads quickly get parachuted into senior or centurion manager roles, with little (or no) operational experience and subsequently try to ‘reinvent the wheel’, without realising such consequences in a highly unionised industry. [...]

Are grads/office-based staff in TfL unionised as well?

 

[Nym]

Are grads/office-based staff in TfL unionised as well?

The majority of Graduates are culturally discouraged from Union Membership and generally attempted to be engaged in a lot of strike breaking activities.

 

[bramling]

Early on in my career, I encountered the rather curious culture in operations that surrounds “grads”. The term is not really used to refer to anyone who has been to University and has a degree (basically that would include 80% of all office based staff, whether managers or not and is likely true of a good proportion operational recruits and new Train Operators over the last decade given the proportion of the population that now go to University). Instead it specifically refers to those who have been through the Graduate Training Scheme. Yet in recent years this method of training has dwindled to a handful of engineers and other specialists. It is the apprentice schemes that now dominate this area of direct recruitment. The intake for these schemes will include some people with University degrees, but also includes those coming straight from school.

The whole topic is rather complex.

IME, “grads” fall into four groups:
(1) Those who are ruthlessly ambitious and will kiss arse in order to further their careers
(2) Those who quickly realise how dysfunctional the place is and settle for a middle ranking position, which they generally carry out to the best of their ability without causing issues
(3) Those who lack the self-awareness to fall into either of the above two groups, and will shove a broom handle up their backside if told to do so
(4) Those who quickly realise how dysfunctional the place is and decide to leave.

Group 2 above can actually make very good managers.

Groups 1 and 3 naturally don’t.

The real problem is more TFL’s dysfunctional and haphazard recruitment process, which seems to time and again fail to match ability / experience with posts. This seems to apply as much to non-graduates as graduates.

There’s also the “weakest link” problem. Those who remember this gameshow (is it still going?) will recall that the object of the exercise was to vote out the weakest member of the team at each round. However when it reached the penultimate round all of a sudden the strongest person found themselves highly likely to be voted out as they were now a threat. Recruitment works in the same way, except in TFL’s case this voting out of talent is endemic.

 

[Nym]

There are some, only some graduates that form a sub-set of (4) that took advantage of some of the better years, learned from some very good people (*who then left or retired) and then either fell into (2) or remained in (4) and left.

 

[Mawkie]

The majority of Graduates are culturally discouraged from Union Membership and generally attempted to be engaged in a lot of strike breaking activities.

Such as seeking Ambassador shifts on strike days for extra cash/time off in lieu.

 

[Nym]

Such as seeking Ambassador shifts on strike days for extra cash/time off in lieu.

Oh it was worse than that.

Keep London Moving included training for depot roles…

 

[bramling]

There are some, only some graduates that form a sub-set of (4) that took advantage of some of the better years, learned from some very good people (*who then left or retired) and then either fell into (2) or remained in (4) and left.

Those better years are very much a thing of the past now!

It’s actually pretty incredible just now negative the atmosphere at LU now is.

 

[xtmw]

Do apprentices have union recognition ?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Do apprentices have union recognition ?

Yes. Pretty much every grade within TfL/LU has recognition from at least one of the big three (or smaller unions), and collective bargaining agreements.

It is sadly convenient for some in management to discourage active participation, however, and it’s safe to say TU involvement is not as strong in TfL as it is in LU.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I’d add that one of the big problems right now is LU/TfL’s obsession with graduates.

It seems grads quickly get parachuted into senior or centurion manager roles, with little (or no) operational experience and subsequently try to ‘reinvent the wheel’, without realising such consequences in a highly unionised industry. There’s no maliciousness to it, as such, they just don’t understand that this isn't the private sector. They think reorganisation is the quickest and most effective way of getting noticed.

There’s plenty of ambitious staff in operational grades with 10/15/20 years experience who possess the capability to be promoted to centurion positions, and then make changes with union involvement, but they don’t get a look-in because of this ‘grad obsession’.

It is the same almost everywhere I am afraid. The NHS are also culprits according to my daughter. Full confession I have 3 degrees - but I have seen some of the best people who do not have a degree. They "just" have experience and commonsense and people skills. Way OT - some of the worst teachers have PhDs!!! imho

 

[Nym]

I’m working with engineering post docs who can’t properly dimension a drawing. Qualifications are meaning less and less nowerdays unfortunately.