Avanti West Coast train skipped Crewe yesterday - TM announced it 2 minutes before we were meant to arrive there

[E B]

I was going to Crewe yesterday to visit the heritage centre. I took an Avanti service from Birmingham to Crewe (9F47 0717 Euston - Liverpool in case anyone is wondering). The train was full of football fans who were going to the Liverpool trophy parade. By the time we departed Stafford the train was completely full, to the point where people were being left behind at Stafford. Around 2 minutes before Crewe (we had passed Basford Hall) the Train Manager whispered “passengers for crewe and runcorn are invited to stay on until liverpool due to safety reasons” through the intercom. You could only hear it if you were right by a speaker. The TM was not helpful at all. As soon as we passed Crewe, one of the many outraged people who wanted to alight at Crewe pressed the PASCOM alarm and forced the train into emergency brake. In the end, we got to Crewe at 1150 (1hr35min after we were meant to).

Should the TM have done this? Is it allowed? And does anyone know what ‘E1’ on the third image means?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This would look to have been the train service in question...

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s08151/2025-05-26#allox_id=0

 

[Haywain]

Should the TM have done this?

What, make an announcement? The TM wasn't driving the train or sitting in control making a difficult decision.

Is it allowed?

Evidently, yes.

And does anyone know what ‘E1’ on the third image means?

I can't say for certain but I would guess that it indicates which passcomm was activated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm guessing a potentially dangerous situation was developing and there was concern about a potential Hillborough type situation. Or people too close to the platform edge and not moving. Did you go through the non platform lines, I guess?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Looking on Tyrell it looks like the decision for it to not to call at Crewe and Runcorn was only made (or at least inputted on the system) at 10:15, well after you left Stafford. It states the train was full and standing from Birmingham New Street, well before it got to Stafford.

 

[E B]

I'm guessing a potentially dangerous situation was developing and there was concern about a potential Hillborough type situation. Or people too close to the platform edge and not moving. Did you go through the non platform lines, I guess?

Yes

 

[E B]

Looking on Tyrell it looks like the decision for it to not to call at Crewe and Runcorn was only made (or at least inputted on the system) at 10:15, well after you left Stafford. It states the train was full and standing from Birmingham New Street, well before it got to Stafford.

There was still quite a bit of standing space after New Street

 

[E B]

What, make an announcement? The TM wasn't driving the train or sitting in control making a difficult decision.

Evidently, yes.

I can't say for certain but I would guess that it indicates which passcomm was activated.

Make an announcement a couple of minutes before you get to a station and forcing people to go at least 2 hours out of their way

 

[E B]

This would look to have been the train service in question...

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s08151/2025-05-26#allox_id=0

Correct

 

[Class15]

This seems like a sensible decision to skip the stop. The number of people getting on could have been dangerous. Safety must be the number one priority.

 

[E B]

This seems like a sensible decision to skip the stop. The number of people getting on could have been dangerous. Safety must be the number one priority.

Could they not have announced ‘The next train at platform 6 is not for boarding’

I have seen announcements at stations saying ‘this train is full’

 

[Harpo]

Make an announcement a couple of minutes before you get to a station and forcing people to go at least 2 hours out of their way

It won’t have been the guard’s decision, they would have been caught by the decision as much as yourself.

It was a huge decision to make and I’ve never known this at such short notice.

Delay repay will hopefully be available to you.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Could they not have announced ‘The next train at platform 6 is not for boarding’

I have seen announcements at stations saying ‘this train is full’

As passengers desperate to get to a once in a generation parade would listen to that! I got on a Mersey rail from Hooton in to Liverpool and the queue was down the road through the car park and then some when a train arrived it was like japan literally people pushing on kids going flying and crying it was awful, the parade was even worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could they not have announced ‘The next train at platform 6 is not for boarding’

I have seen announcements at stations saying ‘this train is full’

Have you seen the photos of the crowds knocking around? It was ten deep. Once someone near the back pushes it is impossible to stop it. That's what led to Hillsborough once the incorrect crowd management decisions had been made.

The only way I can think they could have done it would have been to seal off 12 and make it exit only via the car park guarded by BTP, and call any trains they didn't want to get crowded there. But you have to have things like that planned in advance to be able to use them.

 

[357]

And does anyone know what ‘E1’ on the third image means?

Coach E passcom 1

 

[Falcon1200]

The train should have been replatformed at Crewe and announced as cancelled, so that it became set down only.

 

[Kite159]

The train should have been replatformed at Crewe and announced as cancelled, so that it became set down only.

Although good luck trying to enforce that if it did call, unless it used P12

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although good luck trying to enforce that if it did call, unless it used P12

As I mentioned above 12 would have been an option but you'd need to have planned to do that, with it sealed off on the footbridge and a separate exit onto the car park arranged (which can be done as it often is when there is bus replacement). Maybe that is something that should be planned for next time.

At least the OP got a free journey via Delay Repay I guess.

 

[Falcon1200]

The train was full and standing from at least Stafford, 20 minutes plus away from Crewe, if not from earlier, eg Birmingham, therefore the decision could and should have been made earlier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The train was full and standing from at least Stafford, 20 minutes plus away from Crewe, if not from earlier, eg Birmingham, therefore the decision could and should have been made earlier.

Could it have been made not because the train was busy (busy trains call at stations all the time, and people try to board and eventually give up and are left behind, it happens tens of times at Clapham Junction every morning for instance) but rather because of a developing potentially dangerous situation at Crewe involving platform crowding? I suspect it probably was.

 

[Haywain]

The train was full and standing from at least Stafford, 20 minutes plus away from Crewe, if not from earlier, eg Birmingham, therefore the decision could and should have been made earlier.

Easy to say when you're not making the decision.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Liverpool fans on the train would probably have their own travel nightmare on the return journey with multiple cancellations from Lime St in the evening.
Avanti will then have their own nightmare with all the delay-repay claims.

 

[Harpo]

Assuming the missed calls stemmed from an unsafe situation at Crewe, it’s to be hoped that some sort of review looks at how and why that happened.

If it’s completely unprecedented it doesn’t mean that it should be ignored, but that there’s a huge amount to be learned.

Hopefully it can be done in conjunction with a review into the management of Lime Street too.

 

[E B]

Assuming the missed calls stemmed from an unsafe situation at Crewe, it’s to be hoped that some sort of review looks at how and why that happened.

If it’s completely unprecedented it doesn’t mean that it should be ignored, but that there’s a huge amount to be learned.

Hopefully it can be done in conjunction with a review into the management of Lime Street too.

It was not unprecedented, avanti would have known that the parade was happening a few weeks ago and that all their trains to liverpool would be very busy

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm guessing a potentially dangerous situation was developing and there was concern about a potential Hillborough type situation. Or people too close to the platform edge and not moving. Did you go through the non platform lines, I guess?

This sort of thing happens with Cross-country services at places like Oxford. Why is Avanti so different?

Seems like a ridiculous decision and I would have been very annoyed in that situation

 

[Bletchleyite]

This sort of thing happens with Cross-country services at places like Oxford. Why is Avanti so different?

This TikTok video shows why this is different (with apologies for posting something from the Daily Wail). For those unable to see the video, it depicts a Class 350 standing at platform 6 at Crewe with the doors locked and a densely-packed sea of red-wearing Liverpool fans packing out the whole platform, ten or more deep, and right up to the train so it is unsafe to dispatch it.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7508738474141453591

Bringing a train into that platform (and I doubt 11 was any better) or dispatching the one that is there would have a very high chance of causing multiple injuries. It's a very dangerous situation visible there and there isn't even room to move people back.

 

[cactustwirly]

This TikTok video shows why this is different (with apologies for posting something from the Daily Wail). For those unable to see the video, it depicts a Class 350 standing at platform 6 at Crewe with the doors locked and a densely-packed sea of red-wearing Liverpool fans packing out the whole platform, ten or more deep, and right up to the train so it is unsafe to dispatch it.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7508738474141453591

Bringing a train into that platform (and I doubt 11 was any better) or dispatching the one that is there would have a very high chance of causing multiple injuries. It's a very dangerous situation visible there and there isn't even room to move people back.

Thats no different to peak time on the tube, it's very poor crowd management. The gates should have been closed to control the crowds to stop this happening

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thats no different to peak time on the tube, it's very poor crowd management.

The Tube would dispatch that train having trapped some people in the doors (and paused while they extricated themselves). I jest not - it takes a very different view on risk to the mainline, and I suspect the only reason it gets away with it is that most people who use it when it's that busy (commuters) are expert users and mostly sober (those who go for a drink after work wouldn't be at Bank at 5:30pm, they'd be later when it's quieter).

I suspect most of those fans are neither regular users nor sober.

The gates should have been closed to control the crowds to stop this happening

I guess you haven't been to Crewe and don't know its layout. It basically doesn't have a concourse (being a station that primarily exists for interchange), and that throng up top blocking the main road could have resulted in tragedies along the lines of the one that did happen on Water St. The only way to manage this properly would be to plan in advance to manage it and set up queueing systems on the car park with people led into the station in a controlled manner via Platform 12, perhaps a bit like what Cardiff Central does, but I don't think this level of demand was quite anticipated from places that far from Liverpool itself. (Merseyrail did anticipate it and put things in place, much as some of them weren't universally appreciated e.g. missing some stations out all day to tighten diagrams to free up units for strengthening).

 

[E B]

This TikTok video shows why this is different (with apologies for posting something from the Daily Wail). For those unable to see the video, it depicts a Class 350 standing at platform 6 at Crewe with the doors locked and a densely-packed sea of red-wearing Liverpool fans packing out the whole platform, ten or more deep, and right up to the train so it is unsafe to dispatch it.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7508738474141453591

Bringing a train into that platform (and I doubt 11 was any better) or dispatching the one that is there would have a very high chance of causing multiple injuries. It's a very dangerous situation visible there and there isn't even room to move people back.

I saw this when I finally arrived back in Crewe. I believe this train eventually got cancelled.

 

[amahy]

This late decision seems very poor. Why couldn’t it have been made earlier, at Stafford or Birmingham, if large crowds of people were mounting up at Crewe?