Awful ride on class 450

[3141]

I wonder if anyone else has had an experience similar to mine this afternoon.

I travelled on the 14.39 from London Waterloo to Basingstoke (the ultimate destination is Brockenhurst) which was formed of 450022. I was sitting in the rearmost row of seats in the front carriage. After I got off I checked from outside the train and I reckon I must have been almost directly above the rear axle of the rear bogie. It’s probably not the ideal place to be, but I thought the ride was absolutely awful. There was considerable lurching movement from side to side and up and down. It’s a very long time since I felt sick in any kind of moving vehicle, but I found it necessary to stop reading the Evening Standard that I’d picked up and focus on the view outside. I don’t often travel on a 450, but I’ve never known one to ride anything like this one, and 444s, which I use slightly more frequently, are usually very smooth.

I’ll contact SWT and see if they have any comments.

 

[Temple Meads]

Yes I've had the same problem twice in a 450, only travelled on them about five times.

 

[Bigfoot]

Any coach with seating to the outside of the two bogie pivot points on the coach will have a poor ride. They are at the extremes of movement as the coach rides the curves of the track below.

 

[FenMan]

When the 450s were first introduced, passengers were being lurched/churned from side to side and it was a far from comfortable ride, to say the least.

Not being a techie, I understand the suspension was tuned to stop this happening?

 

[hibtastic]

I was on a TPE 350 this evening at top speed heading for Edinburgh and noticed the same thing!

 

[Starmill]

It's not really an excuse that you're not sat in the best place is it. Ride should be within tolerable parameters regardless.

 

[Monty]

It's not really an excuse that you're not sat in the best place is it. Ride should be within tolerable parameters regardless.

And how does one measure that? It's a fact the ride will not be as smooth if you are sat directly over the bogies opposed to being sat somewhere towards the centre of the coach. That goes for all coaching stock and not just the Desiros. The ironic thing is the Siemens built Desiros are probaby some the best riding stock in the country.

 

[kevinwaltets]

I always though the 442's were much better at handling the track geometry than the awful 444's and worse still the 450's.


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[Bletchleyite]

Desiros seem to ride very roughly at the vehicle ends, this is usual on LM's as well, and the track on the WCML is substantially higher quality, particularly on the fasts, than the South Western. Obviously on an end-doored 444 you don't sit at the ends. They are quite smooth in the middle.

Just poor design - or rather design for high quality German track, I guess.
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The ironic thing is the Siemens built Desiros are probaby some the best riding stock in the country.

I strongly disagree - the Class 221 (specifically, the 220 and 222 have different bogies) and 158 really take some beating. The Desiro ride is in my view average to poor. I like them, but it's their worst feature.

 

[Monty]

Funnily enough I think the 159s are rougher than the 450s!

 

[swt_passenger]

Desiros seem to ride very roughly at the vehicle ends, this is usual on LM's as well, and the track on the WCML is substantially higher quality, particularly on the fasts, than the South Western. Obviously on an end-doored 444 you don't sit at the ends...

You can sit at the very end of a vehicle (right against the bulkhead) in a couple of places on a 444, either end of the TOSLW. It isn't quite as black and white as you suggest.

 

[FordFocus]

Found the 185s to be rough on the end carriage seating even if this is the worse place to sit for comfort, I guess the added weight of the DMU variant doesn't help. Not as noticeable on the old BR stock such as 156s and 158s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Any coach with seating to the outside of the two bogie pivot points on the coach will have a poor ride. They are at the extremes of movement as the coach rides the curves of the track below.

Funnily enough I try, whenever possible, to deliberately sit outboard of the bogie mounts on any carriage...

 

[Blindtraveler]

For the deziroworship on here Iv always found them impherior to other modern stock and older traction and coaches in so so many ways, their only plus point for me being the ability for the WCML variants to run at 110mph

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely the worst-riding stock anywhere in the country is a mk4 at full pelt... worse than the 144 I'm currently on, though obviously there's a speed difference!

 

[AM9]

Desiros seem to ride very roughly at the vehicle ends, this is usual on LM's as well, and the track on the WCML is substantially higher quality, particularly on the fasts, than the South Western. Obviously on an end-doored 444 you don't sit at the ends. They are quite smooth in the middle.

Just poor design - or rather design for high quality German track, I guess.

I find the Desiros to be more tolerant of poor track conditions than Electrostars. Both are fine on good well-laid track e.g. the WCML, but when poor ground conditions and/poor maintenance hits them, the Desiro ride is rough on the Desiros but much more constrained than the Electrostars that have little lateral control. The MML between West Hampstead and Elstree is a good test of that.

 

[Alfie1014]

Not surprisingly the 360s on the GE don't ride that brilliantly either, you get used to bracing for the rough spots, up road between Chelmsford and Ingatestone and the double flat crossovers at Gidea Park. Having the first class at the extremities of the units is not ideal as well, at least on the 350s and 450s they are in the middle of a trailer car. Compare the Desiro typically Germanic harsh ride with a 321 where even with a bogie design more than 25+ years old the difference is quite noticeable. The old BR designers knew how to design and build a bogie that could cope with our sometimes indifferent track quality. I wonder how the new Aventras and Stadler stock will fair?

Seems to be a repeating story though, with the new e320s not riding as well as the original Eurostars too.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Seems to be a repeating story though, with the new e320s not riding as well as the original Eurostars too.

Surely that is more to do with the 374s not being articulated like the 373s?

 

[MatthewRead]

I know the 450's are in poor condition but they aren't as bad as those Southern units!

 

[cjmillsnun]

I know the 450's are in poor condition but they aren't as bad as those Southern units!

The 450s are in bad condition? Are you sure? Afaik they are well maintained by Siemens in Northam

 

[Deepgreen]

And how does one measure that? It's a fact the ride will not be as smooth if you are sat directly over the bogies opposed to being sat somewhere towards the centre of the coach. That goes for all coaching stock and not just the Desiros. The ironic thing is the Siemens built Desiros are probaby some the best riding stock in the country.

Very easily - with an accelerometer. Test a unit over an average stretch of track and record the readings in various parts of the coach against whatever set parameters exist. If they don't exist, formulate a set that testing reveals to be appropriate for the average person's comfort, and then tweak the suspension etc., to suit. This, of course, would ideally be done before entry to service of the type!

 

[RJ]

Surely the worst-riding stock anywhere in the country is a mk4 at full pelt... worse than the 144 I'm currently on, though obviously there's a speed difference!

Don't know about that - try a Pacer to Southport that doesn't stop at New Lane, or one on the curve between Preston and Lostock Hall.