Barnehurst

[frodshamfella]

There were or maybe still are points at Barnehurst. In the days when I commuted from Bexleyheath in the 80s, there were certainly a number of peak services that began or ended at Barnehurst. My question is , did these trains simply start or continue to Slade Green or did some reverse at Barnehurst ? There were other services which were timetabled to or from Slade Green in addition.

 

[30907]

There were or maybe still are points at Barnehurst. In the days when I commuted from Bexleyheath in the 80s, there were certainly a number of peak services that began or ended at Barnehurst. My question is , did these trains simply start or continue to Slade Green or did some reverse at Barnehurst ? There were other services which were timetabled to or from Slade Green in addition.

Can't speak for then, but in earlier years a handful reversed there. I'd have to find a WTT to check and the latest I have is early 70s so before the first London Br rebuild.

 

[John Webb]

A photo from 1954 in the Middleton Press book "Lewisham to Dartford via Bexleyheath and Sidcup" shows most of a crossover at the east end of the station. But the 'live rails' do not appear to be set up for EMUs to use the crossing, so could they actually reverse there?

 

[Roger1973]

To the best of my knowledge (and I don't have an 80s WTT to hand) most of them (likewise similar trains terminating at Crayford or Slade Green) continued either to / from Slade Green depot, or continued with the driver at the same end ran back towards central London either empty all the way, or in service from the next station, which saved time compared to doing a reverse.

I've got a 1972/3 public timetable to hand, and I can find a few matching pairs of peak hour trains terminating / starting at Crayford and Barnehurst which would have had time to reverse or go round the corner - think the latter is more likely.

 

[jfollows]

I have a 16/5/83 to 13/5/84 WTT (Section WC SE Division Suburban lines, Charing Cross & Cannon Street)
For example:

• 16:30 77 Cannon Street to Barnehurst 17:05
• 17:06 67 Barnehurst to Cannon Street, Erith Loop 17*09-17*11, Slade Green 17:13, Cannon Street 17:54

and:

• 16:35 76 Charing Cross to Barnehurst 17:10
• 17:13 87 ECS Barnehurst To Cannon Street, Erith Loop 17*16-17*20, Slade Green 17/22, Cannon Street 17:51

So these just carried on, the first as a passenger service and the second as empty stock.

From what I can see this seems to be the norm in both directions, that's to say the terminating/starting trains continue/originate to/from Slade Green generally, either as a different passenger service or as ECS.

I'm not familiar with the area but I have the WTT so I can possibly answer other questions you might have.

 

[Gloster]

A look at the signal box diagrams for Crayford Spur A and B, which are on the Signalling Record Society’s website, albeit at low resolution, suggests that point locks were fitted on all facing points. Presuming, as is highly likely, that this situation was continued when the boxes were abolished in 1970, then there would have been no problem about passenger trains using the curve.

 

[jfollows]

A look at the signal box diagrams for Crayford Spur A and B, which are on the Signalling Record Society’s website, albeit at low resolution, suggests that point locks were fitted on all facing points. Presuming, as is highly likely, that this situation was continued when the boxes were abolished in 1970, then there would have been no problem about passenger trains using the curve.

There were booked passenger workings Barnehurst - Slade Green - London, not just ECS workings, in both directions in my 1980s WTT.

 

[Magdalia]

In my early London commuting days the 0814 Barnehurst to Blackfriars was notorious as the most frequently cancelled train on the network.

 

[jfollows]

In my early London commuting days the 0814 Barnehurst to Blackfriars was notorious as the most frequently cancelled train on the network.

In 1983/4 at least, formed off 07:15 Holborn Viaduct-Crayford, then 08:04 ECS to Barnehurst to form the 08:14 to Blackfriars.

 

[30907]

I've now done some digging.

1. I have the 79-80 WTT (I had forgotten, I think I liberated it from work!) which is essentially the same as 83-84. There are no workings that reverse at Barnehurst - anything that started or terminated ran ECS via Slade Green or via the Crayford Spur (mornings to form Up trains only - a look at the map will explain why!).
So that answers for the OP's period.

2. However, prior to that there were trains that reversed Barnehurst in the morning peak - there are 2 in my 71-72 WTT. None in the evening peak as it would have blocked the down line for too long, and in any case it was normally easier to send them the longer way round via Slade Green. I also have a couple of early 60s Carriage Working Notices which show trains standing long enough to have reversed, but without the WTT I can't confirm.
So in response to John Webb either the conductor rail layout was acceptable (the issue would have been the ramped ends not the gap) or alterations were made post 1954.

A look at the signal box diagrams for Crayford Spur A and B, which are on the Signalling Record Society’s website, albeit at low resolution, suggests that point locks were fitted on all facing points. Presuming, as is highly likely, that this situation was continued when the boxes were abolished in 1970, then there would have been no problem about passenger trains using the curve.

There were booked passenger workings Barnehurst - Slade Green - London, not just ECS workings, in both directions in my 1980s WTT.

These had run since steam days - unlike the Crayford Spur which was built in WW2 and signalled for passenger but not regularly used as such until relatively recently - I certainly "did" the Spur on a diversion in the 70s.

 

[jfollows]

2. However, prior to that there were trains that reversed Barnehurst in the morning peak - there are 2 in my 71-72 WTT.

I found I have a 73-74 WTT and the same shows here I think:

1. 07:44 76 Charing Cross to Barnehurst 08:17, forms 08:24 76 Barnehurst to Charing Cross 09:04
2. 07:51 77 Cannon Street to Barnehurst 08:23, forms 08:32 76 Barnehurst to Charing Cross 09:13

(I infer the connections between the workings because no other ECS shown for these particular services)

 

[Dr Hoo]

In my early London commuting days the 0814 Barnehurst to Blackfriars was notorious as the most frequently cancelled train on the network.

Even inspired a song, available on YouTube. See Jackie & The Comuters - Day Trip From Barnhurst

As a former manager in the Dartford Area, at least one of the reasons for Barnehurst starters and terminators was the relatively direct route from/to Slade Green Depot via Crayford Creek Junction. There was a direct ladder out of/into the East Headshunt, so just one reversal, clear of the running line.

 

[frodshamfella]

Thanks for all the details .