Bee Network Service Improvements (Existing services)

[Andyh82]

The previous Bee Network thread seems to have been closed, so I’ve had to create this new one

TfGM have announced various frequency increases on the services that will join the Bee Network in Phase 2 from 24th March

Bee Network service changes

When Bee Network bus services launch on 24 September, improvements are planned in Bolton, Wigan and parts of Bury, Salford and Manchester.

tfgm.com

Improvements are being made to some bus services that will become part of the Bee Network on Sunday 24 March 2024.

This includes increased frequency on some routes and some services running earlier and later.

Here are the service changes from 24 March 2024:

 

[johncrossley]

Some of them reverse reductions made by Go North West a few months ago to free up drivers for the Wigan/Bolton services.

 

[Andyh82]

As well as the service renumbering in Bury and Rochdale in March and in Wigan in April that we already know about, TfGM have announced that various school routes will also be being renumbered

Changes to school service numbers in phase two Bee Network areas from 24 March 2024:​

• 125 will become 803: Mottram - Blue Coat School
• 126 will become 816: Haughton Green - Blue Coat School
• 127 will become 849: Gee Cross - Blue Coat School
• 480 (School day only journey) will become 908: Canon Slade High School - Walshaw (PM Journey only)
• 558 will become 822: Diggle - Blue Coat School (AM journey only)
• 721 will become 715: Strangeways - Manchester Co-Academy North
• 795 will become 809: Middleton - Crompton House School
• 805 will become 832: Norden - Blue Coat School
• 884 will become 892: Caldermoor - Kingsway Park School
• 885 will become 800: Smallbridge - Falinge Park School
• 893 will become 900: Ringley - St Monica's RCHS
• 894 will become 848: Littleborough - St Cuthbert's High School

---

Changes to school service numbers in Phase One Bee Network areas – Bolton, Wigan, parts of Bury, Salford and Manchester from 7 April 2024:​

• 603 will become 953: Byrchall – St Edmund Arrowsmith - Highfield
• 652 will become 952: Byrchall – St Edmund Arrowsmith - Newtown
• 887 will become 966: Pendlebury – Bury CE High School
• 907 will become 949: Winstanley – St John Fisher RC HS
• 925 will become 918: Withins – Thornleigh College
• 925 will become 918: Thornleigh College – Withins

Say yellow to the Bee Network

The Bee Network is Greater Manchester's vision to deliver a joined-up London-style transport system, with buses beginning to be integrated from 2023.

tfgm.com

I like the way they are getting everything in a logical order

 

[geoffk]

Is there going to be a county-wide renumbering of bus routes to avoid duplication? I see from the website there are four routes numbered 1, two 2, four 8 etc. When I worked for GMPTE 20 years ago the numbering was fairly logical but since then many operators have done their own thing. With a single livery it's surely important to avoid confusion.

 

[Andyh82]

Is there going to be a county-wide renumbering of bus routes to avoid duplication? I see from the website there are four routes numbered 1, two 2, four 8 etc. When I worked for GMPTE 20 years ago the numbering was fairly logical but since then many operators have done their own thing. With a single livery it's surely important to avoid confusion.

That’s exactly what they are doing

From 24th Match

6 (will change to 406): Rochdale - Queensway - Kirkholt circular
B1 (will change to 477): Bury - Summerseat - Peel Brow - Ramsbottom
B2 (will change to 487): Bury - Limefield - Nangreaves
B3 (will change to 433): Bury – Ferngrove - Heywood – Nordon
B4 (will change to 475): Heywood - Heap Bridge - Bury
R1 (will change to 440): Rochdale - Rochdale Infirmary - Syke
R2 (will change to 461): Rochdale - Shawfield Circular
R3 (will change to 447): Wallbank - Rochdale
R4 (will change to 451): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R6 (will change to 450): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R7 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Kirkholt - Castleton - Middleton
R8 (will change to 442): Rochdale - Bamford - Norden
R9 (will change to 435): Rochdale - Milnrow - Buckstones - High Crompton - Rochdale
R10 (will change to 436): Rochdale - High Crompton - Buckstones - Milnrow - Rochdale
R11 (will change to 437): Rochdale – Lane Head

From 7th April

1 / 2 (will change to 601 and 602 on 7 April 2024): Wigan Highfield - Grange Circular
3 / 4 (will change to 603 and 604 on 7 April 2024) : Wigan - Kitt Green Circular
5 / 6 (will change to 605 and 606 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Beech Hill Circular
7 (will change to 607 on 7 April 2024): Bolton - Wigan
8 (will change to 608 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
9 (will change to 609 on 7 April 2024): Higher Folds - Wigan
10 (will change to 610 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
10A (will change to 611 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Leigh
129 (will change to 553 on 7 April 2024): Higher Green - Boothstown - Farnworth
362 (will change to 632 on 7 April 2024): Chorley - Wigan
590 (will change to 589 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Lowton Circular

Note the Bee Network website lists every service twice, once in each direction

 

[edwin_m]

I can just remember the SELNEC/GMPTE re-numbering in the 70s, which I assume was to ensure numbers were not duplicated within their area. I'm not old enought to recall the details though - are they using a similar scheme for Bee Network?

 

[Leedsbusman]

As well as the service renumbering in Bury and Rochdale in March and in Wigan in April that we already know about, TfGM have announced that various school routes will also be being renumbered

Changes to school service numbers in phase two Bee Network areas from 24 March 2024:​

• 125 will become 803: Mottram - Blue Coat School
• 126 will become 816: Haughton Green - Blue Coat School
• 127 will become 849: Gee Cross - Blue Coat School
• 480 (School day only journey) will become 908: Canon Slade High School - Walshaw (PM Journey only)
• 558 will become 822: Diggle - Blue Coat School (AM journey only)
• 721 will become 715: Strangeways - Manchester Co-Academy North
• 795 will become 809: Middleton - Crompton House School
• 805 will become 832: Norden - Blue Coat School
• 884 will become 892: Caldermoor - Kingsway Park School
• 885 will become 800: Smallbridge - Falinge Park School
• 893 will become 900: Ringley - St Monica's RCHS
• 894 will become 848: Littleborough - St Cuthbert's High School

---

Changes to school service numbers in Phase One Bee Network areas – Bolton, Wigan, parts of Bury, Salford and Manchester from 7 April 2024:​

• 603 will become 953: Byrchall – St Edmund Arrowsmith - Highfield
• 652 will become 952: Byrchall – St Edmund Arrowsmith - Newtown
• 887 will become 966: Pendlebury – Bury CE High School
• 907 will become 949: Winstanley – St John Fisher RC HS
• 925 will become 918: Withins – Thornleigh College
• 925 will become 918: Thornleigh College – Withins

Say yellow to the Bee Network

The Bee Network is Greater Manchester's vision to deliver a joined-up London-style transport system, with buses beginning to be integrated from 2023.

tfgm.com

I like the way they are getting everything in a logical order

Changing the three Blue Coat buses from 125, 126 and 127 to 803, 816 and 849 doesn’t seem a particularly logical order to me

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I can just remember the SELNEC/GMPTE re-numbering in the 70s, which I assume was to ensure numbers were not duplicated within their area. I'm not old enought to recall the details though - are they using a similar scheme for Bee Network?

On the face of it, yes. However much of the re-re-numbering of the Wigan services formerly operated by Stagecoach has failed to revert to the long-established numbers which came in during the GMT era. Same also seems true of the Rochdale area. So while certainly seeking to be logical Bee Network is very much doing things its own way. Perhaps only us old 'uns will notice the difference.

 

[geoffk]

That’s exactly what they are doing

From 24th March

6 (will change to 406): Rochdale - Queensway - Kirkholt circular
B1 (will change to 477): Bury - Summerseat - Peel Brow - Ramsbottom
B2 (will change to 487): Bury - Limefield - Nangreaves
B3 (will change to 433): Bury – Ferngrove - Heywood – Nordon
B4 (will change to 475): Heywood - Heap Bridge - Bury
R1 (will change to 440): Rochdale - Rochdale Infirmary - Syke
R2 (will change to 461): Rochdale - Shawfield Circular
R3 (will change to 447): Wallbank - Rochdale
R4 (will change to 451): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R6 (will change to 450): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R7 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Kirkholt - Castleton - Middleton
R8 (will change to 442): Rochdale - Bamford - Norden
R9 (will change to 435): Rochdale - Milnrow - Buckstones - High Crompton - Rochdale
R10 (will change to 436): Rochdale - High Crompton - Buckstones - Milnrow - Rochdale
R11 (will change to 437): Rochdale – Lane Head

From 7th April

1 / 2 (will change to 601 and 602 on 7 April 2024): Wigan Highfield - Grange Circular
3 / 4 (will change to 603 and 604 on 7 April 2024) : Wigan - Kitt Green Circular
5 / 6 (will change to 605 and 606 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Beech Hill Circular
7 (will change to 607 on 7 April 2024): Bolton - Wigan
8 (will change to 608 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
9 (will change to 609 on 7 April 2024): Higher Folds - Wigan
10 (will change to 610 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
10A (will change to 611 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Leigh
129 (will change to 553 on 7 April 2024): Higher Green - Boothstown - Farnworth
362 (will change to 632 on 7 April 2024): Chorley - Wigan
590 (will change to 589 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Lowton Circular

Note the Bee Network website lists every service twice, once in each direction

Thanks. Some of the new numbers are familiar, especially the Rochdale ones! Except Kirkholt was always 6. Looks as though 590 becomes 589 to avoid duplication with the Rochdale - Halifax route, which is a WY number. A lot of bus stop flags and shelters to update.

 

[edwin_m]

On the face of it, yes. However much of the re-re-numbering of the Wigan services formerly operated by Stagecoach has failed to revert to the long-established numbers which came in during the GMT era. Same also seems true of the Rochdale area. So while certainly seeking to be logical Bee Network is very much doing things its own way. Perhaps only us old 'uns will notice the difference.

Thanks - when they get round to Oldham I can probably remember some of the historic numbers to compare with. Speaking of old 'uns, I do remember a teacher talking about going home on the 13 and how it now had a new-fangled number (183), but I also recall another one talking about getting the train from Clegg Street.

 

[geoffk]

Thanks - when they get round to Oldham I can probably remember some of the historic numbers to compare with. Speaking of old 'uns, I do remember a teacher talking about going home on the 13 and how it now had a new-fangled number (183), but I also recall another one talking about getting the train from Clegg Street.

Clegg Street - erm, a long time go! Closed 1959....

 

[edwin_m]

Clegg Street - erm, a long time go! Closed 1959....

He was approaching retirement in the mid-70s, and also talked about working in a factory somewhere around Marsden during WW2.

 

[Kianlewis48]

Nexus move are to take over 343 on a Sunday and Bank Holiday from 24th March from Stagecoach due to Middleton depot going to Bee Network and 343 not going to bee network till next tranche.

 

[mangad]

Interesting that the 343 didn't just move to Stagecoach's Ashton depot.

 

[mic]

https://bustimes.org/services/184-oldham-bus-station-bus-station

link is to timetable changes for the 184 service as will be seen its reverting back to the direct route on the Yorkshire side and the old times before First West Yorkshire took over

 

[noddingdonkey]

I assume the fact that it says Stand M at Huddersfield rather than Stand K where the existing 184 service moved to recently is a minor detail?

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure at the moment on 184 but I think the current 184 route is staying as it is in West Yorkshire when Bee Network take over, I even believe Oldham Drivers have been/are being trained up on the current route from what I can gather.

 

[Steve440]

Not to sure at the moment on 184 but I think the current 184 route is staying as it is in West Yorkshire when Bee Network take over, I even believe Oldham Drivers have been/are being trained up on the current route from what I can gather.

If you look at bustimes.org and click on show all stops, the stops between Linthwaite and Huddersfield are along the main A62 and not via Linthwaite church as now. Also no stops are shown between The Great Western and Marsden Peel Street therefore omitting Hard End and Fall Lane and only allowing 4 minutes so must be reverting to former route.

 

[mic]

If you look at bustimes.org and click on show all stops, the stops between Linthwaite and Huddersfield are along the main A62 and not via Linthwaite church as now. Also no stops are shown between The Great Western and Marsden Peel Street therefore omitting Hard End and Fall Lane and only allowing 4 minutes so must be reverting to former route.

M60lad put this on another thread aswell

 

[Tim33160]

From TfGM service changes:

From 24 March, services 84 180 184 will join the Bee Network. There is minor timetable changes throughout the week to the 84 service. There will be no changes to times or route to the 180 services. The 184 service will change with buses running direct via Manchester Road instead of serving Hoyle House Fold, Causeway Side, Hazel Grove and Cowlersley Lane in Linthwaite and Cowlersley. Timetable will change throughout the week.

New Bee Network timetable leaflet:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...8dddd4f6f298ad403/84__180__184_24-SC-0093.pdf

 

[edwin_m]

From TfGM service changes:

From 24 March, services 84 180 184 will join the Bee Network. There is minor timetable changes throughout the week to the 84 service. There will be no changes to times or route to the 180 services. The 184 service will change with buses running direct via Manchester Road instead of serving Hoyle House Fold, Causeway Side, Hazel Grove and Cowlersley Lane in Linthwaite and Cowlersley. Timetable will change throughout the week.

New Bee Network timetable leaflet:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...8dddd4f6f298ad403/84__180__184_24-SC-0093.pdf

Thanks for this.

Looking at that leaflet for an area I'm quite familiar with, I can't help thinking the timetable would be much better presented by combining all routes into one table, since the combined routes offer a better service between Uppermill and Manchester. It will be interesting to see if in time they cut some of these back to Oldham and expect people to change onto the tram at Mumps.

 

[mic]

new 184 timetable is up on WY Metro site and is the same as bustimes timetable https://www.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/184/31607

 

[BeeBus]

The picture with the revised 184 is confusing. However, it should be noted that the old TfGM leaflet and the new Bee Network leaflet show the section between Marsden Fall Lane and the Great Western as a Hail and Ride section, so there are no stops (although if you were to rely on the map key you would be led to believe it was a tram line!).

In addition but not announced in the timetable preamble is the loss of the evening journeys worked by Nexus Move with one from Oldham to Marsden and return followed by one from Oldham to Diggle.

Technically outside the scope of this forum but also helping to fuel the uncertainty is the additional loss of evening Huddersfield to Marsden journeys, implying that maybe the 184 link to Marsden Hard End from Huddersfield is now made by another service, but the West Yorskshire planner doesn't show any change apart from the 184 (that I can find!).

Apologies, the Oldham to Marsden return and Diggle workings still run. I missed them as they didn't have the 'M' symbol above it as subsidised journeys don't exist now.

I also note that the WY timetable does show the service calling at Hard End when you go down to stop level information, with several stops on Mount Road.

 

[Statto]

That’s exactly what they are doing

From 24th Match

6 (will change to 406): Rochdale - Queensway - Kirkholt circular
B1 (will change to 477): Bury - Summerseat - Peel Brow - Ramsbottom
B2 (will change to 487): Bury - Limefield - Nangreaves
B3 (will change to 433): Bury – Ferngrove - Heywood – Nordon
B4 (will change to 475): Heywood - Heap Bridge - Bury
R1 (will change to 440): Rochdale - Rochdale Infirmary - Syke
R2 (will change to 461): Rochdale - Shawfield Circular
R3 (will change to 447): Wallbank - Rochdale
R4 (will change to 451): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R6 (will change to 450): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R7 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Kirkholt - Castleton - Middleton
R8 (will change to 442): Rochdale - Bamford - Norden
R9 (will change to 435): Rochdale - Milnrow - Buckstones - High Crompton - Rochdale
R10 (will change to 436): Rochdale - High Crompton - Buckstones - Milnrow - Rochdale
R11 (will change to 437): Rochdale – Lane Head

From 7th April

1 / 2 (will change to 601 and 602 on 7 April 2024): Wigan Highfield - Grange Circular
3 / 4 (will change to 603 and 604 on 7 April 2024) : Wigan - Kitt Green Circular
5 / 6 (will change to 605 and 606 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Beech Hill Circular
7 (will change to 607 on 7 April 2024): Bolton - Wigan
8 (will change to 608 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
9 (will change to 609 on 7 April 2024): Higher Folds - Wigan
10 (will change to 610 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Wigan
10A (will change to 611 on 7 April 2024): Wigan - Leigh
129 (will change to 553 on 7 April 2024): Higher Green - Boothstown - Farnworth
362 (will change to 632 on 7 April 2024): Chorley - Wigan
590 (will change to 589 on 7 April 2024): Leigh - Lowton Circular

Note the Bee Network website lists every service twice, once in each direction

The 10 / 10A really should be renumbered to 600 / 601 as that's what the numbers were before Stagecoach changed them

Oh 7 should be 540, the 8 / 598, & the 9 / 659 if they went back to the old numbers, here's a Wigan South map from 2014 with the old number system

GM Wigan South Map 311014.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[noddingdonkey]

The picture with the revised 184 is confusing. However, it should be noted that the old TfGM leaflet and the new Bee Network leaflet show the section between Marsden Fall Lane and the Great Western as a Hail and Ride section, so there are no stops (although if you were to rely on the map key you would be led to believe it was a tram line!).

I think you've answered your own confusion - the map on bus times is data generated. There are no stops on the hail and ride section through Hard End so it's showing the direct route by default. The Tfgm leaflet will be correct

 

[mic]

I think you've answered your own confusion - the map on bus times is data generated. There are no stops on the hail and ride section through Hard End so it's showing the direct route by default. The Tfgm leaflet will be correct

thanks for info its good it still going that way or else that side of Marsden would have had no bus service

 

[GCH100]

& the 9 / 659 if they went back to the old numbers,

GM Wigan South Map 311014.pdf

drive.google.com

The 9 was the 658 not the 659. The 659 originally ran Leigh - Lowton - Golborne - Abram - Platt Bridge - Wigan, but hasn't ran for many many years.

 

[Djb1]

The picture with the revised 184 is confusing. However, it should be noted that the old TfGM leaflet and the new Bee Network leaflet show the section between Marsden Fall Lane and the Great Western as a Hail and Ride section, so there are no stops (although if you were to rely on the map key you would be led to believe it was a tram line!).

In addition but not announced in the timetable preamble is the loss of the evening journeys worked by Nexus Move with one from Oldham to Marsden and return followed by one from Oldham to Diggle.

Technically outside the scope of this forum but also helping to fuel the uncertainty is the additional loss of evening Huddersfield to Marsden journeys, implying that maybe the 184 link to Marsden Hard End from Huddersfield is now made by another service, but the West Yorskshire planner doesn't show any change apart from the 184 (that I can find!).

Apologies, the Oldham to Marsden return and Diggle workings still run. I missed them as they didn't have the 'M' symbol above it as subsidised journeys don't exist now.

I also note that the WY timetable does show the service calling at Hard End when you go down to stop level information, with several stops on Mount Road.

The nexus move 184 journeys appear to still be running

https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/4dIXIPlQmTcG5ug5pFME9k/2acbb9fd19cddd486e70008c91a9a40a/84__180__184_correction_24-SC-0176.pdf

Edit - apologies. You corrected yourself further down the reply.

 

[Andyh82]

One thing I noticed is that Rosso currently run some school services in the tranche 3 area (in Tameside and Manchester)

I wondered what would happen to these, it looks like they are passing to First Manchester as non franchised services until they are let as part of Tranche 3

You can see them here with the ‘From Mar 24’ indicator https://bustimes.org/operators/first-greater-manchester

 

[YorkRailFan]

https://x.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1771099379908116507?s=20

Good news to start your Friday. Our @BeeNetwork committee has approved the start of a Night Bus trial on:

the V1 from the city centre to Leigh, the 36 from the city centre to Bolton.

The hourly services through the early hours will start in the next few months.

Good news for everyone in Manchester, hopefully this will become more wide spread across Bee Network.