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Best Course of Action? Abandoned by train company.

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allbarbarry

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Hello All,

I've unfortunately returned to the forum to seek advice with a far less than satisfactory experience of using the railway. A few specific details to my experience I have intentionally omitted.

I travelled to London by train last week for an evening out with some friends (travelling by myself). When I arrived at the station for my return journey, I discovered that my last train home had been cancelled. This was late at night and the place was mostly empty, with very few passengers around and nearly no staff.

I approached the ticket office, which is managed by Network Rail and was still open. The staff member there refused to assist me and told me that I needed to approach my train operator to get help with getting home. They said that I had to travel by Underground to another mainline station (which is the main station of the operator) to see someone there. The train operator's customer assistance phone line was closed.

When I got to the other station, there were a number of what I assume are platform staff in purple high-visibility jackets, who didn't want to hear anything from me, said there was nothing they could do and told me to leave the station as it was closed. I asked to speak to a manager. They immediately escalated the situation unnecessarily and behaved in a blatantly thuggish manner. They accused me of being aggressive towards them (which I was not, I had spoken very politely and did not swear once). I was shouted at to leave, which I agreed to do, but wasn't given the opportunity to before they got hold of me and physically removed me from the station. They locked metal shutters across the station entrance and exit.

It was at this point my phone ran out of battery and died. I walked to the Underground attached to the station, where a very helpful staff member was able to look up the timetable on his phone and tell me that the next train ran sometime around 5am. With no other option, no where to go in London, and needing to get home for tomorrow (I had work), I ended up having to hail down a black cab in central London and pay the fare of over £300 to get home. I have the receipt for this.

Although alone, I am not thankfully a particularly vulnerable individual. I do not drink. During this time, I was being nearly constantly approached by beggars, drunks and people clearly under the influence of other substances. I dread to think of the potential danger the railway would've put an alone woman or girl through, or a disabled person.

I'm not sure how to approach this situation, with the form of action that I'll have to take. I don't feel that a full refund of my ticket, nor the reimbursement of my taxi cost, and a hashed cheap apology quite cuts it, considering the complete abandonment of the railway from their responsibilities, as well as the probable assault I suffered from staff.

How best might I proceed?


Barry
 
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RailUK Forums

crablab

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It goes without saying that it's disappointing you had such a poor experience.

I can understand why you might want to avoid identifying details, especially given that altercation, but I think it would help if you could include some specifics about the stations, route and TOCs. For example, Network Rail don't operate any ticket offices. Perhaps you went to an information point instead?

In general, any TOC that is in a position to help must assist in these situations. It may have been the station you were sent to had finished service for the day, and so they weren't able to help; although it doesn't sound like it was handled well.

It's good to hear that TfL did assist you (despite not being obligated to), although they weren't able to do much practically.

As you elected to abandon your journey you will need to start with a complaint to the TOC at fault asking for a refund of your fare, and compensation for the taxi cost in the circumstances. I think it is likely you will have to litigate via the small claims court to recover the taxi fare, to set expectations.
 

greatkingrat

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Did you have an itinerary showing the cancelled train? If the last train of the day from a London Terminal was cancelled at short notice, I would expect there to be many other passengers in the same situation as you.
 

rocrat

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You'll get 100% delay repay if you fill out the relevant TOC (train operating company) online form. Did you scan your ticket at all to demonstrate that you had attempted to start your journey? This isn't an issue with a paper ticket.

If you request a refund rather than delay repay, you will (well, "should") only get the difference between the outbound single fare and the return ticket, which will always be less than the delay repay. As you made your journey by alternative means, I think delay repay is an entirely reasonable mechanism here and I don't think the TOC would disagree.

If you want your taxi reimbursed, an email to customer services of the TOC response may well be sufficient. Making this as matter of fact as possible will increase the chance they pay out without dispute. ("last train was cancelled, no alternative transport provided, taxi booked, here's my receipt, kind regards.") Any reasonable food expenses will likely also be paid if you have the receipts.

A complimentary 1st class return is a reasonably common further apology for these, though this is a goodwill gesture and not something you have an explicit legal right to if you've already received 100% compensation.

Unless you have any demonstrable consequential losses or evidence of harm beyond having to pay for the taxi, it is highly unlikely that you'll get anything except your delay repay and taxi refund, and it is unlikely that the Ombudsman will side with you beyond 100% refund and the taxi (and *maybe* a complimentary ticket).

Don't be shocked if the TOC initially refuses to help you; as others have said, you may need to go to the Ombudsman or to small claims court. Give the TOC a reasonable chance to respond though.
 

crablab

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As you made your journey by alternative means, I think delay repay is an entirely reasonable mechanism here and I don't think the TOC would disagree.
I'm not sure I agree. Delay Repay is for, well, delays. If you abandon your journey and seek alternative transportation and claim on the basis of delay you might hypothetically have incurred had one continued to rely on the railway, it starts to stray into a grey area.

If you abandon your journey before beginning it or on the outward, you're entitled to a full refund (if a TOC is at fault). I think a full refund in the OPs circumstances would be uncontroversial.

To be clear, I think the OP should be entitled to 2+ hour DR. My view is the appropriate way to achieve that is through customer services in the first instance (who may well instruct them to make a DR claim, but then it's clear the OP is following instructions).


Don't be shocked if the TOC initially refuses to help you; as others have said, you may need to go to the Ombudsman or to small claims court. Give the TOC a reasonable chance to respond though.
Absolutely :)
 

Parham Wood

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I would also complain to the operator of the station that was closed. The staff had no right to act and speak as they did.
 

rocrat

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I'm not sure I agree. Delay Repay is for, well, delays. If you abandon your journey and seek alternative transportation and claim on the basis of delay you might hypothetically have incurred had one continued to rely on the railway, it starts to stray into a grey area.

If you abandon your journey before beginning it or on the outward, you're entitled to a full refund (if a TOC is at fault). I think a full refund in the OPs circumstances would be uncontroversial.
I agree with you that a refund would be the most correct way to do this, though *if* OP used their ticket on the underground or if they scanned it at any point in the original station, this counts as attempting to start said journey, and as they've already used the outward portion, the retailer/Ombudsman are unlikely to offer a 100% refund straight away.

Delay repay is an grey area here I agree if there's no evidence of attempting to start said journey...

Worth pointing out to OP that if they used contactless/Oyster for the cross-London transfer, they can claim for this too (using a redacted bank/card statement if needs be). Also, if OP used the tube to get to their intended London terminal, this also counts as a split ticket (assuming they used contactless/Oyster) and is evidence of "starting" a journey too.
 

crablab

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I'm not sure it's really to do with whether they started the return or not :) Strictly, in order to be eligible for DR you need to have completed the journey through the railway and incurred whatever level of delay.
If you abandon your journey and return to your origin on the outward, or seek your own onward transportation to you destination (off your own back, not the same as the TOC authorising you to book a taxi and claim it back) then you should, strictly, be claiming a form of refund.

But I'm not sure this nuance is necessarily something we need to hash out here, if we're agreed that OP should get a complaint into the TOC.
 

E759

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Next time travel from Victoria to Gatwick then Metrobus 200 to Horsham; trains and buses run throughout the night.
 

Haywain

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the ticket office, which is managed by Network Rail
Network Rail do not manage any ticket offices, they are all run by train operating companies, and should be in a position to help, if only by directing you to an appropriate person. Sending you to a different station isn't really appropriate, but without knowing which station you were at it is difficult to comment further.
 

MrJeeves

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Next time travel from Victoria to Gatwick then Metrobus 200 to Horsham; trains and buses run throughout the night.
I don't see how you've made the assumption that OP was at Victoria or travelling to Horsham given they've not mentioned this once. Not everyone is going to/from their local station when they travel.

Without the OP telling us their journey, there's rather limited advice that can be provided.
 

Adam Williams

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Network Rail do not manage any ticket offices, they are all run by train operating companies, and should be in a position to help, if only by directing you to an appropriate person. Sending you to a different station isn't really appropriate, but without knowing which station you were at it is difficult to comment further.

For what it's worth, I have had a Network Rail employee give me authority to travel at a large NR-managed station during disruption, before. They printed it on headed paper for me, so I guess it must happen occasionally for them to have a process in place. The staff in the Avanti-run ticket office refused to talk to me because "I wasn't one of their customers" :lol:
 

Kite159

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I don't see how you've made the assumption that OP was at Victoria or travelling to Horsham given they've not mentioned this once. Not everyone is going to/from their local station when they travel.

Without the OP telling us their journey, there's rather limited advice that can be provided.
Although reading between the lines the OP could have been at London Bridge wanting to catch a Southern service. I'm pretty sure the ticket office at London Bridge is run by South Eastern so could have had a "nothing to do with us" attitude and sent the OP to Victoria just to get rid of them. When the OP arrived at London Victoria they found the station closed.

Or vice versa with the OP starting at Victoria (with a Southern ticket office) and South Eastern cancelling the last train and the staff sending them to one of the other South Eastern stations (Charing Cross/Cannon Street/London Bridge) simply to get rid of them rather than actually assisting.

Although the OP will need to give more details, but sadly there are some bad staff out there who will try and pass the buck to save them having to do anything more than selling a simple day return to X
 

greatkingrat

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Horsham would make sense. 9J71 2330 London Bridge - Horsham (ex Peterborough) was cancelled Mon-Wed last week. This seems to be a planned cancellation that had been in the system since August.

The intended alternative was the 2338 to Three Bridges, where you can connect into the last Victoria - Horsham.
 

furlong

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The specific details do matter in situations like this, where it has to be determined to what extent each party involved (including yourself) bears any responsibility.

Please be as precise as you can about the date, journey, and where and when you obtained the information about the train you were seeking to catch confirming it was running that day (or if you just assumed this from your own knowledge of the timetable) and how and when you discovered it was cancelled and what time it was when you approached the ticket office. Also confirm precisely what ticket you held, how much you paid for it, when and where you purchased it and what itinerary you selected (if any) when booking.

If it was the journey suggested, you should have been advised to take the alternative train (which departed late on Monday).
 

30907

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Although the OP will need to give more details, but sadly there are some bad staff out there who will try and pass the buck to save them having to do anything more than selling a simple day return to X
OTOH, if the OP had been at Blackfriars at (say) 2315, advising them to go to Victoria would not have been unreasonable. However, the OP has intentionally omitted the relevant details so we are all guessing.
 

6Gman

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Without the where and when I'm not sure how the OP expects to receive useful advice.
 

Jim the Jim

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I don't think being physically thrown out of the station counts as "electing to abandon one's journey". He was forced to abandon his journey by the actions of the TOC.

The railway is very clear that aggression towards staff will be prosecuted. That goes both ways. I suggest you contact the company informing them that you will be reporting the staff members in question to the British Transport Police for a violation of railway byelaw 6, and perhaps assault.
 

Dr Hoo

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I am confused that there were still several 'platform staff' around if the second station was 'closed' (presumably because there were no more trains that night). We still don't know which station(s) were involved and whether the staff were actually employed by Network Rail rather than the Train Operator.
 

WAB

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I am confused that there were still several 'platform staff' around if the second station was 'closed' (presumably because there were no more trains that night). We still don't know which station(s) were involved and whether the staff were actually employed by Network Rail rather than the Train Operator.
It will be difficult to work this out if this is at Victora, as both TOC and Network Rail staff have the same purple uniform - see the uniforms in the image below.

f2299183fbaa474884a1a9a6b492e9c5
 

jumble

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Horsham would make sense. 9J71 2330 London Bridge - Horsham (ex Peterborough) was cancelled Mon-Wed last week. This seems to be a planned cancellation that had been in the system since August.

The intended alternative was the 2338 to Three Bridges, where you can connect into the last Victoria - Horsham.
If this is the scenario it seems astonishing that the ticket office apparently had no idea about this and instead sent the OP to a closed station where presumably the last train had run.
It also seems curious that someone who has agreed to leave is physically manhandled.
I am unfortunatly not convinced we are getting the whole story especially given the OPs lack of any kind of detail
 

RJ

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Three Bridges is staffed 24 hours and are well versed with procuring taxis.

More information is needed with respect to times and stations. Was it really not possible to get to Blackfriars or Three Bridges or East Croydon at least, if only to get that taxi cost and time down?
 

30907

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Victoria and LBG would have been open until 0100, the OP would have had a later service from the TL core to TBG. So ...
I am unfortunately not convinced we are getting the whole story especially given the OPs lack of any kind of detail
 

allbarbarry

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Good Morning All,

Thanks for your comments and input with this.

I’ll be making a delay repay claim and a separate complaint to the customer service team for the refund of my taxi - see what success I have with that.

Barry
 

AlterEgo

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Good Morning All,

Thanks for your comments and input with this.

I’ll be making a delay repay claim and a separate complaint to the customer service team for the refund of my taxi - see what success I have with that.

Barry
Don't do that. Submit a single complaint which addresses all the issues, as delay repay is liquidated damages which, once you accept, may limit the company's desire to compensate you separately.
 
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