Beware of Polregio ticket machines. It forces you to select an itinerary and the default validity start is at that itinerary.

[miklcct]

I flew to Gdańsk this morning and took trains from the airport to Hel. There was only one ticket machine on the platform and after I entered the destination, it forced me to choose an itinerary. The next train on my route would depart at 09:00 but it wasn't an option in the journey planner, so I had to choose 09:10.

Tickets on Polregio are not fixed train tickets. Instead, they have a time validity, which was 6 hours for my journey. During the vending process it required me to choose the validity start but it defaulted to 09:10 rather than now, which in my eyes was a trap if a ticket is required for immediate travel (the most common use case), so I had to manually adjust the validity start to 09:00.

This is such a user-unfriendly design. The most common use case of a ticket machine is to buy tickets for immediate travel, therefore a journey planner is bad. I hope that such machines won't appear in the UK.

 

[AdamWW]

I flew to Gdańsk this morning and took trains from the airport to Hel. There was only one ticket machine on the platform and after I entered the destination, it forced me to choose an itinerary. The next train on my route would depart at 09:00 but it wasn't an option in the journey planner, so I had to choose 09:10.

Tickets on Polregio are not fixed train tickets. Instead, they have a time validity, which was 6 hours for my journey. During the vending process it required me to choose the validity start but it defaulted to 09:10 rather than now, which in my eyes was a trap if a ticket is required for immediate travel (the most common use case), so I had to manually adjust the validity start to 09:00.

This is such a user-unfriendly design. The most common use case of a ticket machine is to buy tickets for immediate travel, therefore a journey planner is bad. I hope that such machines won't appear in the UK.

It sounds as if the journey planner being broken was the problem. It makes sense to me to start a 3 or 6 hour ticket from when you can actually use it, not when you buy it.

I found their app equally bad. It required the names of all passengers whereas in my experience generally all that's needed is the name of the lead passenger. Then it said that even though I'd chosen my ticket without a discount, it would like to know my date of birth for next time in case there might be a discount available, and brought up a calendar picker that only offered the option of going back month by month.

And that was when the app was working - much of the time it just failed to find any journeys.

In contrast I found staff in ticket offices to be helpful and efficient, as well as able to cope with my awful pronunciation of station names like Gransk Wrzesczc.

And I think we already have journey planner TVMs already in the UK.

 

[miklcct]

It sounds as if the journey planner being broken was the problem. It makes sense to me to start a 3 or 6 hour ticket from when you can actually use it, not when you buy it.

Of course the journey planner won't show the 09:00 train because it will connect to the same train as the 09:10, but it makes sense to get on the first departing train on my route regardless of subsequent connections.

 

[AdamWW]

Of course the journey planner won't show the 09:00 train because it will connect to the same train as the 09:10, but it makes sense to get on the first departing train on my route regardless of subsequent connections.

Ah - I read that as the planner showing a non existant train.

At the time I used that line a few days ago the trains were half hourly.

I see your point now. Yes that isn't very helpful. I can see the logic of a journey planner based TVM, but it probably wants different rules to one intended to be used in advance. If planning ahead, you'd probably aim for the 9:10. If you're actually at the station before the 9:00 leaves, as you say you might as well get that.

I haven't used a Polregio ticket machine - I either bought on the app or from a ticket window.

Another curiosity is that I paid the same for a ticket from Gdansk to the airport (something like 20 minutes) as I paid for Gdansk to Hel (2.5 hours).

And the train to Hel was a lot more interesting than the airport one.

 

[Robski]

The reason why most TVM's in Poland insist on an itinerary is because the ticket machine has to know the exact distance travelled and the train categories used so that the correct fare is charged. Tickets in Poland are priced by the distance travelled in kilometres, and some trains take different routes to get to the same place (some services are also not subsidised, in which case they have different fare structures).

If in a hurry, you can always buy a ticket from the train manager - although for this to be allowed, you must make yourself known to the train manager prior to boarding or as soon as possible after boarding, and board through the first set of doors.

 

[Deerfold]

To be fair, I was at Shipley station yesterday, 5 minutes before the departure of the second to last train. Buying tickets on the LNER app I had to select the last train before it would sell me an anytime single. If I'd been there for the last train I'd have had to go and find a ticket machine which was a minute or so walk away and panic about getting it on time

 

[AdamWW]

If in a hurry, you can always buy a ticket from the train manager - although for this to be allowed, you must make yourself known to the train manager prior to boarding or as soon as possible after boarding, and board through the first set of doors.

I was somewhat surprised to see on an SKM train (sort of Gdansk area S-bahn) that there was a hatch in what looked like the door to the cab through which one could purchase tickets.

Getting off, I could see that it actually lead to a guard's compartment behind the cab so as I'd hoped it wasn't the driver turning round to sell tickets while on the move.

That sort of thing seems to be just for trams.

 

[miklcct]

I've just hit another problem. I was going back to Gdynia, and I arrived the station 12 minutes before a TLK train departed. However, the journey planner at the ticket machine did not show the next available train, only a Regio train the hour afterwards, and there was no way for me to pick an intercity fare for the next train.

I ended up buying the ticket from the PKP Intercity website, and in the process, it told me that a seat reservation couldn't be made. I finally got an e-ticket and boarded the train.

 

[30907]

I've just hit another problem. I was going back to Gdynia, and I arrived the station 12 minutes before a TLK train departed. However, the journey planner at the ticket machine did not show the next available train, only a Regio train the hour afterwards, and there was no way for me to pick an intercity fare for the next train.

Perhaps it only sold PR tickets?

 

[rg177]

I can't remember ever encountering a TVM that would do both PKPIC and Polregio stuff. Everyone seems to do their own thing. I can recall doing a wild goose chase around Kraków Główny early last year trying to find a machine that would do tickets for the services operated by Koleje Małopolskie.

As Hel is (IIRC) just a summer-only extension for PKPIC I'm not entirely surprised that there isn't a TVM that would sell tickets for it.

As I've mentioned before, KOLEO seems to be the best app for these things as it does near enough everything in one transaction (then issues all the relevant tickets separately if needs be).

 

[AdamWW]

I can't remember ever encountering a TVM that would do both PKPIC and Polregio stuff. Everyone seems to do their own thing. I can recall doing a wild goose chase around Kraków Główny early last year trying to find a machine that would do tickets for the services operated by Koleje Małopolskie.

As Hel is (IIRC) just a summer-only extension for PKPIC I'm not entirely surprised that there isn't a TVM that would sell tickets for it.

As I've mentioned before, KOLEO seems to be the best app for these things as it does near enough everything in one transaction (then issues all the relevant tickets separately if needs be).

I found it a bit confusing that regional and Intercity services seem to be entirely independent things (different apps, and no such thing as a single ticket for an intercity journey with a connection onto a regional train?)

It wasn't obvious to me that someone in a PKP uniform at a PKP branded tiket window could or would sell me a ticket for a regional train. But they could.
But as you say the ticket machines seem to be separate.

They don't seem to be that keen on ticket machines anyway - I suspect they have largely gone from manned ticket windows to online purchases skipping out the ticket machine stage.

Despite the fact that the two types of service in Germany are also distinct, they seem to have managed to make things somewhat more integrated.
DB happily sold me a ticket for a regional train to connect with a Eurocity from Berlin to Gdansk. I don't think I could have done something similar in reverse without buying two tickets (and losing rights if a connection is missed?)

 

[Robski]

I was somewhat surprised to see on an SKM train (sort of Gdansk area S-bahn) that there was a hatch in what looked like the door to the cab through which one could purchase tickets.

Getting off, I could see that it actually lead to a guard's compartment behind the cab so as I'd hoped it wasn't the driver turning round to sell tickets while on the move.

The door you mention (which by the description appears to be from an EN57/EN71 train) is a luggage door, commonly used by train managers to observe the platform prior to and during departure.

For the purposes of what I mentioned re. boarding through the first door, I meant the first passenger door.

I've just hit another problem. I was going back to Gdynia, and I arrived the station 12 minutes before a TLK train departed. However, the journey planner at the ticket machine did not show the next available train, only a Regio train the hour afterwards, and there was no way for me to pick an intercity fare for the next train.

TLK trains are regularly sold out weeks prior to departure, yet alone 12 minutes. You cannot buy an "open" ticket for PKP Intercity trains except for some multi-day and season passes.

I can't remember ever encountering a TVM that would do both PKPIC and Polregio stuff. Everyone seems to do their own thing. I can recall doing a wild goose chase around Kraków Główny early last year trying to find a machine that would do tickets for the services operated by Koleje Małopolskie.

There are loads of ticket machines that sell both PKP Intercity and Polregio tickets - there is certainly a few in Krakow, Bydgoszcz, Torun, Gdansk etc. They have both the PKPIC and Polregio logo on the side.

I found it a bit confusing that regional and Intercity services seem to be entirely independent things (different apps, and no such thing as a single ticket for an intercity journey with a connection onto a regional train?)

It is possible to buy such a ticket through Bilkom.

Despite the fact that the two types of service in Germany are also distinct, they seem to have managed to make things somewhat more integrated.
DB happily sold me a ticket for a regional train to connect with a Eurocity from Berlin to Gdansk. I don't think I could have done something similar in reverse without buying two tickets (and losing rights if a connection is missed?)

Deutsche Bahn hasn't privatised DB Regio. Polregio is not part of the PKP group, and hasn't been since 2009.

Under Polish regulations, where a passenger who is delayed on train A may miss train B (regardless of whether its on one or two tickets), the train manager of train A is obliged to make all reasonable attempts to hold train B (the operator of train B must also be reasonable here), or arrange an alternative route.

 

[AdamWW]

The door you mention (which by the description appears to be from an EN57/EN71 train) is a luggage door, commonly used by train managers to observe the platform prior to and during departure.

No, I meant the door into the saloon. I saw a couple of people board the train, then buy their tickets through a hatch that could be opened in the door. At least that's what it looked as if they were doing. There seemed to be a button to push to get someone to open the hatch.

It is possible to buy such a ticket through Bilkom.

Is that a single ticket though, or are you just being sold two separate tickets?

Deutsche Bahn hasn't privatised DB Regio. Polregio is not part of the PKP group, and hasn't been since 2009.

I appreciate that Polregio is no longer part of PKP.
But many regional trains in Germany aren't operated by DB yet I can just use the DB travel planner to find out times, and they accept tickets purchased from the DB app and DB ticket machines (and with interavailability where the route is shared with DB trains).
I can't see any reason that Polregio couldn't have been separated from PKP yet shared a fare system with PKP trains if that's what the government had wanted, just as we've done in the UK.

Under Polish regulations, where a passenger who is delayed on train A may miss train B (regardless of whether its on one or two tickets), the train manager of train A is obliged to make all reasonable attempts to hold train B (the operator of train B must also be reasonable here), or arrange an alternative route.

I don't know what happens with connections between Intercity and regional trains, but I was certainly impressed with how they handled having to terminate an Intercity train early and put the passengers onto the train behind, which ended up running about an hour late.

Not only did they hold what would have been a tight connection onto my next train, they seemed to have used the time to add a couple of extra carriages for the people who should have been on an earlier train.

 

[Robski]

No, I meant the door into the saloon. I saw a couple of people board the train, then buy their tickets through a hatch that could be opened in the door. At least that's what it looked as if they were doing. There seemed to be a button to push to get someone to open the hatch.

Ah, I think you are talking about something like this? These only appear on the modernised EN57/EN71 AKM units.

In which case yes, it would be the train manager (who often sits in the cab).

Is that a single ticket though, or are you just being sold two separate tickets?

A single through ticket in the majority of cases.

But many regional trains in Germany aren't operated by DB yet I can just use the DB travel planner to find out times, and they accept tickets purchased from the DB app and DB ticket machines (and with interavailability where the route is shared with DB trains).
I can't see any reason that Polregio couldn't have been separated from PKP yet shared a fare system with PKP trains if that's what the government had wanted, just as we've done in the UK.

Because there isn't a Polish equivalent of the Rail Delivery Group to allocate the revenue - it operates on a fundamentally different ticketing model. Fares income goes directly to the operator, not through something like ORCATS.

Bilkom (which is managed by PKP Informatyka, the IT division) aims to fix this, and all mainline operators are signed up except Koleje Mazowieckie and SKM Warszawa.

 

[AdamWW]

Ah, I think you are talking about something like this? These only appear on the modernised EN57/EN71 AKM units.

Yes - that indeed. I think the only time I've seen something like that was on a Japanese multiple unit - but there it was the driver that sold tickets.

Bilkom (which is managed by PKP Informatyka, the IT division) aims to fix this, and all mainline operators are signed up except Koleje Mazowieckie and SKM Warszawa.

Ah - most interesting.

 

[miklcct]

The ticket machine at Gdynia main station offered an itinerary of Intercity, and the main page also had a button to buy Intercity tickets. Such a button didn't exist at Hel.

 

[AdamWW]

The ticket machine at Gdynia main station offered an itinerary of Intercity, and the main page also had a button to buy Intercity tickets. Such a button didn't exist at Hel.

I don't think I've been anywhere else where I found it as hard to figure out how the system worked apart from Spain.

The difference is that (from my limited experience) once you understand it, the Polish rail system seems to be a lot more useful as a network than the Spanish one.

 

[Robski]

The ticket machine at Gdynia main station offered an itinerary of Intercity, and the main page also had a button to buy Intercity tickets. Such a button didn't exist at Hel.

The Polregio ticket machine at Hel station does sell PKP Intercity tickets, subject to availability.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

I find it easiest to go, if possible, to a staffed ticket office and buy the tickets you want in advance. You may well end up with a bunch of individual tickets for your journey but if the journey goes wrong (late trains/missed connections) it is easier to show the conductor these tickets as they can then see your planned route and hold a train or reroute you accordingly. I know that this is not always possible and many of the stations in rural Poland don’t even have a ticket machine let alone ticket office. As a poster mentioned above you can, on the Polregio, buy a ticket once onboard though I have been charged a small additional fee in the past for not buying one before boarding. Same with Intercity services also. Make sure you seek out the conductor though as the small fee becomes a bigger fee if they sell you the ticket without you coming to them. The PKP intercity app is pretty good in my opinion. You can exchange and refund tickets very easily through it. Whereas paper ticket changes need forms filling in and stamping at ticket offices.

 

[AdamWW]

I find it easiest to go, if possible, to a staffed ticket office and buy the tickets you want in advance. You may well end up with a bunch of individual tickets for your journey but if the journey goes wrong (late trains/missed connections) it is easier to show the conductor these tickets as they can then see your planned route and hold a train or reroute you accordingly. I know that this is not always possible and many of the stations in rural Poland don’t even have a ticket machine let alone ticket office. As a poster mentioned above you can, on the Polregio, buy a ticket once onboard though I have been charged a small additional fee in the past for not buying one before boarding. Same with Intercity services also. Make sure you seek out the conductor though as the small fee becomes a bigger fee if they sell you the ticket without you coming to them. The PKP intercity app is pretty good in my opinion. You can exchange and refund tickets very easily through it. Whereas paper ticket changes need forms filling in and stamping at ticket offices.

Yes I found the PKP app very convenient - easy enough to buy tickets (and choose seats) and also to cancel and get a refund (for most of the ticket price) if my plans changed.

The Polregio app on the other hand....

 

[miklcct]

If in a hurry, you can always buy a ticket from the train manager - although for this to be allowed, you must make yourself known to the train manager prior to boarding or as soon as possible after boarding, and board through the first set of doors.

I did exactly this today and a large on board surcharge (8 zł) was applied, because the station had ticketing facilities.

There was a long queue at the only ticket machine at Hel with the people before me not knowing what to do with the journey planner, and the delayed train at the platform was ready to depart. It wasn't also possible to buy a ticket for a delayed train online as well (the online ticketing deadline is 3 minutes before departure).

It's such a poor customer service from Polregio to penalise travellers by installing only one ticket machine at such a popular holiday destination and not allowing me to buy a ticket online. I'm going to post my experience on various travel forums to warn others.

 

[miklcct]

I find it easiest to go, if possible, to a staffed ticket office and buy the tickets you want in advance.

How does it work with Polregio tickets if you don't know when exactly you want to travel? For example, having a day out on the beach is very weather dependent.

The PKP intercity app is pretty good in my opinion. You can exchange and refund tickets very easily through it. Whereas paper ticket changes need forms filling in and stamping at ticket offices.

The Polregio app doesn't even work at all. The journey planner always fails with error 403 and I have to use the website.

PKP Intercity is less relevant to my travel because regional trains are much more frequent, with a departure or even two every hour on the line to Hel.

 

[AdamWW]

There was a long queue at the only ticket machine at Hel with the people before me not knowing what to do with the journey planner, and the delayed train at the platform was ready to depart. It wasn't also possible to buy a ticket for a delayed train online as well (the online ticketing deadline is 3 minutes before departure).

When I bought my tickets back from Hel a few days ago, there was a bit of a queue at the ticket machine outside the station building but inside was a ticket window with almost no queue. And someone behind it who could understand my no doubt awful pronunciation of Gdansk Wrzeszcz.

The Polregio app doesn't even work at all. The journey planner always fails with error 403 and I have to use the website.

I found it worked for me....some of the time. I couldn't figure out a pattern as to when it failed and when it gave an error though.

 

[Robski]

I did exactly this today and a large on board surcharge (8 zł) was applied, because the station had ticketing facilities.

This is only charged if the station in question has a staffed open ticket office* (the presence of ticket machines has no relevance). Hel station has two staffed ticket offices in addition to the single ticket machine. Gdansk Port Lotniczy/Gdansk Airport does not have a staffed ticket office.

Also, for context: 8zł is £1.60. The surcharge ranges from 4zł (<6km) to 8zł (>25km).

* There are also exemptions for older people, people with reduced mobility etc.

How does it work with Polregio tickets if you don't know when exactly you want to travel? For example, having a day out on the beach is very weather dependent.

You buy a ticket for the earliest train you'll think you can take. Tickets on this route are valid for 6 hours, and as the journey time is less than 2 hours and departures are roughly hourly you have a choice of times to travel (up to four hours after booked departure time). Selected itineraries are only advisory.

It's such a poor customer service from Polregio to penalise travellers by installing only one ticket machine at such a popular holiday destination and not allowing me to buy a ticket online.

As mentioned above, there are two staffed ticket counters at Hel station in addition to the ticket machine.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The Polregio app doesn't even work at all. The journey planner always fails with error 403 and I have to use the website.

I wouldn't even bother using the website. The Koleo app and website are much better.

I found it a bit confusing that regional and Intercity services seem to be entirely independent things (different apps, and no such thing as a single ticket for an intercity journey with a connection onto a regional train?)

It is a major problem in Poland, largely caused by mismanagement and lack of goodwill towards passengers. It would take a lengthy essay to explain it all, but it's very much a situation where malice has been responsible for a substandard passenger experience. A friend's dad is in a senior management position at PolRegio, and some of his stories are hair raising, including situations where the trade unions actively blocked ticket machines at many stations because they wanted to retain commission from on-board ticket sales.

I can't see any reason that Polregio couldn't have been separated from PKP yet shared a fare system with PKP trains if that's what the government had wanted, just as we've done in the UK.

The simple answer is that PKP Intercity (and PolRegio) are run by themselves for themselves, not for passengers.

The ticket machine at Gdynia main station offered an itinerary of Intercity, and the main page also had a button to buy Intercity tickets. Such a button didn't exist at Hel.

This is because Gdynia Główna is served by PKP Intercity year round, whereas Hel is served only in summer by them. There also aren't that many tickets sold on PKP Intercity *from* Hel, it's mostly return tickets. Passengers? Who cares about them!

 

[Terry Tibbs]

How does it work with Polregio tickets if you don't know when exactly you want to travel? For example, having a day out on the beach is very weather dependent.


The Polregio app doesn't even work at all. The journey planner always fails with error 403 and I have to use the website.

PKP Intercity is less relevant to my travel because regional trains are much more frequent, with a departure or even two every hour on the line to Hel.

Hi there. I suppose for a scenario such as the beach and ropey weather with a flexible time frame it’s not quite a simple. You’re probably just best rolling up at the station where you want to board and either:
- if there’s a staffed ticket office buy your ticket
- if there’s a machine buy your ticket
- get on the train and buy a ticket (Unless this is an EIP service the additional fee is never large).

 

[miklcct]

Hi there. I suppose for a scenario such as the beach and ropey weather with a flexible time frame it’s not quite a simple. You’re probably just best rolling up at the station where you want to board and either:
- if there’s a staffed ticket office buy your ticket
- if there’s a machine buy your ticket
- get on the train and buy a ticket (Unless this is an EIP service the additional fee is never large).

The fee I attracted by buying on board (8 zł) was nearly half of the ticket price (19.3 zł for 76 km).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fee I attracted by buying on board (8 zł) was nearly half of the ticket price (19.3 zł for 76 km).

I hardly think £1.58 will have bankrupted you.

 

[rg177]

I think its best we leave it here - thanks all for your contributions.