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Bicycles on trains - is it worth the hassle?

Llandudno

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Is it just me but in recent years there appears to be a large increase in bicycles on board trains?

But, it’s not only the amount of bicycles on board trains, but the size of them! They seem much bigger and bulkier than ever before? There are BMX, Mountain Bikes, some with huge tyres, electric bikes and I have even seen Just Eat riders with their bikes and storage boxes on board!

The trouble is that there just isn’t the space on board many trains for all these bikes, a couple of journeys I made over the weekend including full and standing 2 Car TfW trains on the north Wales coast, bikes, pushchairs, tents, rucksacks, cases etc and then a horrendous crushloaded northbound XC train from New Street and someone was trying to board with a huge mountain bike!

A know, in theory you are meant to prebook bicycle spaces on certain trains, but how many do, how many simply blag it and what happens if your prebooked train is cancelled/disrupted etc!

Should none fold up bicycles be banned off the rail network?
 
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Bletchleyite

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Should none fold up bicycles be banned off the rail network?

No. However with modern technology I think I would advocate reservation for them being compulsory and enforced* (could be made very easily available via apps, booking offices and TVMs) on pretty much all trains aside from very frequent metro type services like Merseyrail and London Overground.

However with the issues surrounding illegal electric motorcycles and the complexity of differentiating between those and genuine e-bikes (and despite the fact I own an e-bike), I think I would temporarily go with TfL on banning e-bikes, at least until legislation/enforcement manages to sort the issue of the food couriers. I am conscious this poses a potential disability discrimination issue, but TfL doesn't seem to have been caught out by this.

* This would in practice, unless a Byelaw could be "repurposed" in the manner of Merseyrail feet on seats, probably need a law change to allow a Penalty Fare to be applied in this context.
 

brad465

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Taunton or Kent
Electric bikes on the rise would explain the increase in both number and size of the bikes. If something had to be banned I'd start with these, similar to e-scooters already being so.

We shouldn't ban push bikes as there needs to be, among other reasons, a "fall back" opportunity for cyclists to be rescued if things go wrong, and buses don't permit them (and not every cyclist has a partner with a car on hand).
 

SynthD

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UK
It is likely impossible to reduce demand in any way, including reservation. Some people would rightly kick up a fuss if active travel is limited, others would never learn or care to follow the new rules.

Increase supply. Ensure there is room for luggage to not go in dedicated bike spaces. Where there is a non-seat area, eg buffet, consider changing some of it to bike storage.
 

43066

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London
Is it just me but in recent years there appears to be a large increase in bicycles on board trains?

But, it’s not only the amount of bicycles on board trains, but the size of them! They seem much bigger and bulkier than ever before? There are BMX, Mountain Bikes, some with huge tyres, electric bikes and I have even seen Just Eat riders with their bikes and storage boxes on board!

The trouble is that there just isn’t the space on board many trains for all these bikes, a couple of journeys I made over the weekend including full and standing 2 Car TfW trains on the north Wales coast, bikes, pushchairs, tents, rucksacks, cases etc and then a horrendous crushloaded northbound XC train from New Street and someone was trying to board with a huge mountain bike!

A know, in theory you are meant to prebook bicycle spaces on certain trains, but how many do, how many simply blag it and what happens if your prebooked train is cancelled/disrupted etc!

Should none fold up bicycles be banned off the rail network?

Banning non folding bikes entirely is a bad idea. However what will likely increasingly happen is restrictions on non folding bikes at busy times (already in place on London commuter TOCs for years), and I’d be in favour of compulsory reservations for bikes.

There have also been TOC/location specific restrictions on carrying bikes for certain large scale cycling events.

Increase supply. Ensure there is room for luggage to not go in dedicated bike spaces. Where there is a non-seat area, eg buffet, consider changing some of it to bike storage.

This likely isn’t going to be viable based on the existing rolling stock fleet. Ultimately priority should be given to maximising space to carry passengers over luggage (and bikes really are a form of luggage).
 

The exile

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Somerset
This likely isn’t going to be viable based on the existing rolling stock fleet. Ultimately priority should be given to maximising space to carry passengers over luggage (and bikes really are a form of luggage).
If you stripped out the seats from a part of any train there would probably be room for more (standing) passengers even if there were a healthy number of bikes.
 

43066

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If you stripped out the seats from a part of any train there would probably be room for more (standing) passengers even if there were a healthy number of bikes.

While it’s certainly true that seats take up a lot of space, stripping seats out isn’t going to be a good or popular option on longer distance services. At the margins bikes and other luggage will always end up being squeezed out in favour of passengers, whether standing or seated. Otherwise the tail would be wagging the dog rather.
 

Harpers Tate

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The core issue here is (IMO) that with the advent of the huge "re-design" of the Railways here that took place in the early-mid 80s, there has been a desperation to cram as many seats into trains with as few vehicles as possible. Hence the huge prioritisation of seating over accomodation for the non-human elements that may accompany travellers such as luggage (whether airport suitcases or bicycles or whatever). So we now have shorter trains, and shorter station platforms. IMO it was always a flawed approach and it needs reversing. It's not the activities of passengers that need to adapt to the railway; it's is quite the opposite. In the context of cycles particularly, we hear noises from time to time in certain quarters about active travel. Making that easier would be a step towards such a goal.
 

Falcon1200

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Neilston, East Renfrewshire
Should none fold up bicycles be banned off the rail network?

Absolutely not! Some trains, including the types on which I take my bike*, have spaces for everyone and everything. If they did not, I would not cycle as much and my health and wellbeing would suffer.

*Scotrail's classes 156, 380 and 385.
 

Brubulus

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13 Oct 2022
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Cambridge
The long term solution is slightly longer trains with slightly less dense seating enabling adequate space for carrying bikes and luggage. The short term solution is compulsory reservations for bikes, which would be available until departure.
 

Oldgaloot

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26 Nov 2023
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Guildford
Reservations sounds a solution until you recall threads in which people record getting on a train and finding their reserved seat occupied by someone who won't move. So if someone brings a bike of whatever sort onto the train without a resrvation where do we go from there?
 

Llandudno

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25 Dec 2014
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2,485
Reservations sounds a solution until you recall threads in which people record getting on a train and finding their reserved seat occupied by someone who won't move. So if someone brings a bike of whatever sort onto the train without a resrvation where do we go from there?
No seat reservations on Northern, TfW or EMR (except London route), three operators notorious for running 2 car trains….so not sure if bicycle reservations would be possible?
 

JohnMcL7

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18 Apr 2018
Messages
952
It's not just e-bikes that are getting bigger, many mountain bikes have grown substantially and gravel bikes which are beefed up and often larger than road bikes are also a popular choice. At the same time storage on trains seems to be going down, I've not tried to get a bike on a class 800 but looking at that little cupboard I doubt either of my mountain bikes would fit. Scotrail have mandatory reservations (or least did) and the racks in the 158's, 170's and mk3's easily hold the bikes however while I'd like to take the train further with the bike I don't find it worth the hassle so I still use the car. I don't fancy trying to get a road bike and loaded pannier racks into those little vertical racks either which is a shame since it would be great for the train to do the long haul and then have the flexibility of the bike at the end.

There's obviously some exceptions like the Scotrail 153's and I think TFW versions converted for carrying bikes.
 
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