Bidder shortlist for London Overground concession

[plcd1]

Passenger Transport magazine have tweeted the bidder shortlist for the new London Overground concession that starts in November 2016.

Four bidders shortlisted for London Overground: Arriva, LoKeGo (a joint venture between Keolis and Go-Ahead), Metroline and MTR

Four bidders have been shortlisted for the next contract to operate London Overground services, Transport for London announced on June 29. The shortlisted bidders are:

• Arriva Rail London Ltd;
• LoKeGo Ltd (Keolis (UK) Ltd and Go-Ahead Holding Ltd joint venture);
• Metroline Rail Ltd;
• MTR Corp.

TfL intends to issue the tender documentation by the end of July, with submissions expected by mid-October. The winner would take over when the current contract held by the London Overground Rail Operations Ltd joint venture of MTR Corp and Arriva ends in November 2016....

Interesting to see Arriva and MTR have parted company so no more LOROL and that Metroline have decided to bid despite no UK rail experience. Comfort Delgro (their parent) run some MRT lines in Singapore through SBS Transit.

Railway Gazette article - http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...r-london-overground-operating-concession.html

 

[transmanche]

LoKeGo (a joint venture between Keolis and Go-Ahead)

Interesting that they didn't bid as Govia, being that GoVia is a already joint venture between Keolis and Go-Ahead. Is there is difference in the shareholding proportions (a la VTWC and VTEC)? Perhaps Keolis owning a bigger proportion (than in GoVia) being as their name is listed first?

Interesting to see Arriva and MTR have parted company so no more LOROL

I was a bit surprised that MTR did a solo bid for Crossrail, I thought they'd want to keep a successful formula. Obviously they think they can make more money working solo?

 

[plcd1]

Interesting that they didn't bid as Govia, being that GoVia is a already joint venture between Keolis and Go-Ahead. Is there is difference in the shareholding proportions (a la VTWC and VTEC)? Perhaps Keolis owning a bigger proportion (than in GoVia) being as their name is listed first?

I was a bit surprised that MTR did a solo bid for Crossrail, I thought they'd want to keep a successful formula. Obviously they think they can make more money working solo?

A couple of guesses from me.

I wonder if the fact it is a concession means that Govia's normal company structure isn't appropriate? A concession has to manage performance and cost but has next to no control over revenue.

I suspect MTR consider they can pull in experience from Crossrail as well as Hong Kong to put in a good deal. There are a number of possible common factors where they may be able to do well - shared depot at Ilford, common rolling stock supplier and maintainer, working with TfL on intensive urban services etc. Obviously Arriva have some of those things too via LOROL but I suspect MTR and Metroline will push Arriva and Govia very hard.

 

[Stats]

Interesting that they didn't bid as Govia, being that GoVia is a already joint venture between Keolis and Go-Ahead. Is there is difference in the shareholding proportions (a la VTWC and VTEC)? Perhaps Keolis owning a bigger proportion (than in GoVia) being as their name is listed first?

LoKeGo Ltd is 65% Keolis, 35% Go-Ahead

 

[transmanche]

LoKeGo Ltd is 65% Keolis, 35% Go-Ahead

So the opposite way round to GoVia...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

LoKeGo Ltd is 65% Keolis, 35% Go-Ahead

So the opposite way round to GoVia...

I think that's the proportion of the Keolis/Go Ahead bid for the TPE franchise.
Maybe they have found a brand name for the Keolis-led JV.

 

[transmanche]

I think that's the proportion of the Keolis/Go Ahead bid for the TPE franchise.
Maybe they have found a brand name for the Keolis-led JV.

Could be. Although I had assumed that the 'Lo' in LoKeGo stands for 'London Overground'.

 

[GospelOak117]

Is that Metroline as in the North London bus operator?

 

[DarloRich]

Is that Metroline as in the North London bus operator?

yes i think so - both owned by Comfortdelgro

 

[plcd1]

Is that Metroline as in the North London bus operator?

Yes but the parent company ComfortDelgro has extensive transport interests in Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, Ireland, Vietnam and China. A lot of those are car and bus operations but the North East and Downtown Lines on the Singapore MRT are run by SBS Transit (the largest ComfortDelgro operation in Singapore).

I think this is the first time that Metroline / ComfortDelgro have reached a bidding shortlist for UK rail.

 

[HH]

Could be. Although I had assumed that the 'Lo' in LoKeGo stands for 'London Overground'.

Indeed. An awful name though.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think this is the first time that Metroline / ComfortDelgro have reached a bidding shortlist for UK rail.

Well if you're going to have a first dip into UK Rail then you couldn't get an easier franchise to run - no revenue risk, train maintenance outsourced (once LOTRAIN comes in) and a set of stations that is continuously being upgraded by TfL.

 

[northwichcat]

I think that's the proportion of the Keolis/Go Ahead bid for the TPE franchise.

Yes. However, for Northern it's Govia who are bidding. I thought at the time maybe Kelios only want the majority share in franchises if the franchise only includes regional/intercity services but with LoKeGo bidding for LO I don't think that is the case.

 

[t0ffeeman]

Passenger Transport magazine have tweeted the bidder shortlist for the new London Overground concession that starts in November 2016.


Interesting to see Arriva and MTR have parted company so no more LOROL and that Metroline have decided to bid despite no UK rail experience. Comfort Delgro (their parent) run some MRT lines in Singapore through SBS Transit.

Railway Gazette article - http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...r-london-overground-operating-concession.html

Considering that MTRs MD used to be MD of Arriva this parting is no surprise whatsoever

 

[450.emu]

Could be. Although I had assumed that the 'Lo' in LoKeGo stands for 'London Overground'.

LoKeGo sounds like a Pokemon character :roll: whoever wins, it will be under TfL branding anyway. I think Arriva will do well, surprised to see Metroline as a bidder, seems they are not content having swallowed up the majority of West London's bus routes as well.

When will the tender results be revealed?

 

[plcd1]

LoKeGo sounds like a Pokemon character :roll: whoever wins, it will be under TfL branding anyway. I think Arriva will do well, surprised to see Metroline as a bidder, seems they are not content having swallowed up the majority of West London's bus routes as well.

When will the tender results be revealed?

The timetable seems to be

ITT issued - July 2015
Bids returned - Mid October 2015
Concession starts - November 2016

TfL have not stated an award date but common practice is to allow about 6 months transition period between Award and Start Date so I'd hazard a guess for April / May 2016. The one thing that may cause problems hence TfL being non committal are the Mayoral Elections in May 2016. They will be subject to purdah when nothing is said and TfL may also decide it is best to allow a new Mayor and likely a new Transport Commissioner the opportunity to announce the new operator and any associated benefits / improvements. Of course a new Mayor may have a different policy about the Overground which could force a delay or change - who knows?!

 

[evergreenadam]

Includes increase in frequency from 8 to 10 trains per hour on the North London Line.

 

[GospelOak117]

surprised to see Metroline as a bidder, seems they are not content having swallowed up the majority of West London's bus routes as well.

They appear to be continuing to grow in NL too. I noticed they have pinched some of Arriva's routes. I'm kinda surprised to see a bid from them too, but then again our rail system is pretty much dominated by the bus companies now, so it is understandable Metroline should want to have a crack at it too.

It would seem they have no aspirations to move their operations much further afield than the lands of North and West London/Hertfordshire that they know, but I forget, overground stretches far South of the river now!

As David Brent said, move on and spread the word beyond Slough.....in Winnersh, Bracknell, Taplow, Yateley

 

[HH]

Of course a new Mayor may have a different policy about the Overground which could force a delay or change - who knows?!

The last two have pretty much taken the same approach, and I would expect the next to do the same. More to the point is that Sir Peter Hendy has to be replaced. Will that cause any change of direction at TfL?

 

[Clip]

The last two have pretty much taken the same approach, and I would expect the next to do the same. More to the point is that Sir Peter Hendy has to be replaced. Will that cause any change of direction at TfL?

Surely the direction will change depending on what the new Mayor wants but I cant see any of the candidates for the various parties wanting to deviate from the course they are set on already

 

[HH]

Surely the direction will change depending on what the new Mayor wants but I cant see any of the candidates for the various parties wanting to deviate from the course they are set on already

That was what I was trying to say. The current plan makes sense from a mayoral perspective.

 

[plcd1]

Surely the direction will change depending on what the new Mayor wants but I cant see any of the candidates for the various parties wanting to deviate from the course they are set on already

Clearly the Mayor sets the direction. However I can see some of the potential candidates taking an aggressive stance about the cost of TfL and what it pays for things. A new long term contract would be an ideal opportunity to "demand" greater value for money and stamp their vision on things. I am not saying it will happen just musing about possibilities.

 

[plcd1]

TfL are now getting ready for the award of the new Overground Concession. A paper is going to next week's Finance and Policy Cttee and then the Board later in March for sign off. I'd expect the winning bidder to be announced shortly afterwards.

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/fpc-160302-15-london-overground-operating-concession.pdf

1.1 The purpose of this paper is to update the Committee on the procurement process being undertaken by Rail for London (RfL) for the next concession agreement to operate London Overground passenger train services from November 2016 (the Concession Agreement) and seek approval to enter into the Concession Agreement.

1.2 A paper is included on Part 2 of the agenda, which contains exempt
supplementary information. The information is exempt by virtue of paragraph 3 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972 in that it contains information relating to the business affairs of TfL. Any discussion of that exempt information must take place after the press and public have been excluded from this meeting.

The paper sets out changes to the performance regime with a tighter punctuality regime and other changes. There is also a short list of pre-priced contract options for future service improvements.

 

[CapitalStar378]

My money's on MTR with them having Crossrail - er sorry, Elizabeth line too. Plus their part in LOROL.

 

[Skoodle]

The bit that sticks out to me is the following:

Under the operating performance regime the Operator will be incentivised to bear down on the impact of delays caused by Network Rail and other train and freight operating companies. For incidents where Network Rail or another train or freight operator is deemed responsible the Operator will suffer financial deductions calculated at 10 per cent of the equivalent Operator caused incidents.

Any delay penalty caused by Network Rail or another operator will cause the new concession holder to pay equivalent of 10% of the penalty that the other operators will pay to TfL. Pretty unfair I think, wouldn't be surprised if any pull out.

 

[Bald Rick]

The bit that sticks out to me is the following:



Any delay penalty caused by Network Rail or another operator will cause the new concession holder to pay equivalent of 10% of the penalty that the other operators will pay to TfL. Pretty unfair I think, wouldn't be surprised if any pull out.

That would have been in the tender, so bidders would have known what they were getting into. Also AIUI there is a similar arrangement with LOROL on the existing contract.

 

[HH]

My money's on MTR with them having Crossrail - er sorry, Elizabeth line too. Plus their part in LOROL.

IMO that would be a good choice. I hear that Arriva had a strong bid though. Possibly there has been some post-bid bargaining (BAFO); who might be better at that I wonder?

 

[Clip]

The bit that sticks out to me is the following:



Any delay penalty caused by Network Rail or another operator will cause the new concession holder to pay equivalent of 10% of the penalty that the other operators will pay to TfL. Pretty unfair I think, wouldn't be surprised if any pull out.

Well how much does the operator get from freight or NR from delays caused by them? If its more than 10% then its just TfL taking off their little slice isn't it?

 

[paulravuslante]

It would seem they have no aspirations to move their operations much further afield than the lands of North and West London/Hertfordshire that they know, but I forget, overground stretches far South of the river now!

You seem to have forgotten their Scottish Citylink operations though.

 

[SPADTrap]

LoKeGo...seriously they're having us on!

They must be?

 

[BurtonM]

as in the name?

London
Keolis
Govia