Birmingham (any) validity

[SouthStand]

Is a Peterborough to Birmingham (any) day return valid to Birmingham International?

Thanks.

 

[robbeech]

I don’t believe there’s a specific day return for this flow, just the regular returns valid for a month.

Unfortunately Peterborough to Birmingham Stations is only valid via map BP which is essentially the direct route the Cross country service takes. As such it doesn’t appear valid via Birmingham International and certainly isn’t valid to there via Birmingham.

However a Peterborough to Birmingham International ticket is valid to go in and out of Birmingham and you would be permitted to break your journey and/or start and finish short.
The off peak return is £53.80 as opposed to the Birmingham stations ticket at £48.60 though.

 

[SouthStand]

I don’t believe there’s a specific day return for this flow, just the regular returns valid for a month.

Unfortunately Peterborough to Birmingham Stations is only valid via map BP which is essentially the direct route the Cross country service takes. As such it doesn’t appear valid via Birmingham International and certainly isn’t valid to there via Birmingham.

However a Peterborough to Birmingham International ticket is valid to go in and out of Birmingham and you would be permitted to break your journey and/or start and finish short.
The off peak return is £53.80 as opposed to the Birmingham stations ticket at £48.60 though.

Thanks. Interestingly, the guard thought it probably would be valid but he didn’t really know.

 

[robbeech]

There’s a chance that a guard would allow it, but of course it’s not the first guard that would be allowing you to, it would be a guard between Nuneaton and Coventry and Coventry to Birmingham International that would need to be persuaded.

 

[mangyiscute]

I had a friend travel from Cambridge to Birmingham International (they just saw Birmingham stations and assumed it covered international) and they were fine except at the gateline at Birmingham International, I think they got let through eventually.
On the way back, I advised them to buy an International to New Street single.
I guess perhaps Birmingham stations should be renamed since I think it's totally fair for people to think Birmingham International is in Birmingham stations.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is the £53.80 Off Peak Return from Peterborough to Birmingham International (route "via Leicester") valid via Nuneaton/Coventry?

 

[Haywain]

I guess perhaps Birmingham stations should be renamed since I think it's totally fair for people to think Birmingham International is in Birmingham stations.

It should now show the 3 relevant stations on tickets on PRT.

 

[Nottingham59]

It should now show the 3 relevant stations on tickets on PRT.

May I ask what PRT is?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

May I ask what PRT is?

In context, it's likely to mean 'Paper Roll Ticket'.

 

[TheTallOne]

Is Birmingham International actually in Solihull rather than Birmingham?

Or is it the closeness that dictates which stations count as Birmingham?

 

[JonathanH]

Or is it the closeness that dictates which stations count as Birmingham?

'Birmingham Stations' is the three primary stations in the centre of Birmingham, New Street, Moor Street and Snow Hill, which should be fairly logical to most people.

Birmingham International is a station which is 8 miles away from the centre of Birmingham.

 

[185143]

I've certainly been on XC services in the past where the TM has announced that Birmingham Stations tickets are NOT valid to Birmingham International. Admittedly the first time I heard it, there was an event on at the NEC, but I've heard it since also.

 

[mangyiscute]

'Birmingham Stations' is the three primary stations in the centre of Birmingham, New Street, Moor Street and Snow Hill, which should be fairly logical to most people.

Birmingham International is a station which is 8 miles away from the centre of Birmingham.

Sure, if you know that it makes sense, but if you have never been to Birmingham how are you meant to know that.

This was also due to us going to an event at the NEC, btw.

 

[Haywain]

Sure, if you know that it makes sense, but if you have never been to Birmingham how are you meant to know that.

If you've never been to Birminhjam why would the existence of a Birmingham stations group be of any relevance? You would buy a ticket to whichever station you are going to.

 

[Nottingham59]

If you've never been to Birminhjam why would the existence of a Birmingham stations group be of any relevance? You would buy a ticket to whichever station you are going to.

If you start typing "Birming" on most ticketing sites, the first option you get presented with is "Birmingham (All Stations)". I can quite see how someone might select that option, assuming it gave them a ticket valid to all birmingham stations.

 

[JonathanH]

I can quite see how someone might select that option, assuming it gave them a ticket valid to all birmingham stations.

Yes, it would be much better if it said 'All central stations" or something similar.

 

[JB_B]

If you start typing "Birming" on most ticketing sites, the first option you get presented with is "Birmingham (All Stations)". I can quite see how someone might select that option, assuming it gave them a ticket valid to all birmingham stations.

The forum's booking site explicitly lists the 3 relevant stations rather than using the ambiguous "Birmingham (All Stations)" description at the journey planning stage which is exactly how it should be done.

If that was made an accreditation requirement then just maybe the problem would eventually go away. ( Given the state of the industry that seems a bit far-fetched.)

 

[Nottingham59]

The forum's booking site explicitly lists the 3 relevant stations rather than using the ambiguous "Birmingham (All Stations)" description at the journey planning stage which is exactly how it should be done.

That's good to see.

East Midlands Trains is even worse than the NR website. It explicitly describes Birmingham International as a "City Centre" station

If that was made an accreditation requirement then just maybe the problem would eventually go away. ( Given the state of the industry that seems a bit far-fetched.)

That would help, but it doesn't solve the problem that even if someone has buys a ticket to New Street, they get issued a ticket to "Birmingham Stations", which they might reasonably assume allows them to travel on to Birmingham International.

 

[robbeech]

East Midlands Trains is even worse than the NR website. It explicitly describes Birmingham International as a "City Centre" station

Well that really ought to be changed. Hopefully some of our EMR staff we have here can pass on a message, unless that bit comes from the Trainline side of things. Does it say the same on Northern for example?

 

[30907]

Well that really ought to be changed. Hopefully some of our EMR staff we have here can pass on a message, unless that bit comes from the Trainline side of things. Does it say the same on Northern for example?

It doesn't.

 

[dvboy]

The forum's booking site explicitly lists the 3 relevant stations rather than using the ambiguous "Birmingham (All Stations)" description at the journey planning stage which is exactly how it should be done.

The problem with that is if you don't know which station in Birmingham is the best one for your journey, how do you pick the right one?
There should at least be an option for "Birmingham City Centre stations" or similar.

I was looking at booking a ticket to Blackpool earlier today, not knowing whether to choose Blackpool North or Blackpool South, because I don't know Blackpool, how do I know if one option is better than the other?

 

[JonathanH]

I was looking at booking a ticket to Blackpool earlier today, not knowing whether to choose Blackpool North or Blackpool South, because I don't know Blackpool, how do I know if one option is better than the other?

Look at a map and a timetable?

 

[dvboy]

Look at a map and a timetable?

I did look on a map to understand that either station would be fine, but if I'm flexible in what time I can go, and will book my ticket based on the prices offered, then doing one search for "Blackpool (any)" is better than doing separate searches for both North and South stations and spending time comparing them. In the end that's what I did, on a site that had the option.

 

[OscarH]

The problem with that is if you don't know which station in Birmingham is the best one for your journey, how do you pick the right one?
There should at least be an option for "Birmingham City Centre stations" or similar.

I was looking at booking a ticket to Blackpool earlier today, not knowing whether to choose Blackpool North or Blackpool South, because I don't know Blackpool, how do I know if one option is better than the other?

To be clear, the forum site does still have the group for Birmingham, just the group name is "Birmingham New Street, Moor Street or Snow Hill" rather than "Birmingham (Any)".

It doesn't have the Blackpool group (there are technical differences between different types of group, and where they come from), but I agree groups for cases like that are definitely useful

 

[dvboy]

To be clear, the forum site does still have the group for Birmingham, just the group name is "Birmingham New Street, Moor Street or Snow Hill" rather than "Birmingham (Any)".

It doesn't have the Blackpool group (there are technical differences between different types of group, and where they come from), but I agree groups for cases like that are definitely useful

Thanks for clearing that up. Out of interest, what is the difference?

 

[Watershed]

I did look on a map to understand that either station would be fine, but if I'm flexible in what time I can go, and will book my ticket based on the prices offered, then doing one search for "Blackpool (any)" is better than doing separate searches for both North and South stations and spending time comparing them. In the end that's what I did, on a site that had the option.

There isn't a Blackpool Stations group for ticketing purposes; it was abolished in May 1994. Presumably this was to allow better allocation of revenue between the various shadow franchises that were being established at the time.

Ever since you have had to either buy a ticket to Blackpool North (BPN), or to Blackpool South (BPS). Whilst walk-up BPN tickets are reasonably likely to be accepted to/from (unbarriered) BPS, as you can always ask the guard before reaching Poulton-le-Fylde or before boarding at BPS, the reverse is much less likely to be true as BPN's barrier staff are notoriously unfriendly.

 

[dvboy]

There isn't a Blackpool Stations group for ticketing purposes; it was abolished in May 1994. Presumably this was to allow better allocation of revenue between the various shadow franchises that were being established at the time.

Ever since you have had to either buy a ticket to Blackpool North (BPN), or to Blackpool South (BPS). Whilst walk-up BPN tickets are reasonably likely to be accepted to/from (unbarriered) BPS, as you can always ask the guard before reaching Poulton-le-Fylde or before boarding at BPS, the reverse is much less likely to be true as BPN's barrier staff are notoriously unfriendly.

Thanks, that explains the difference to how Birmingham group works (obviously to benefit the privatised rail industry rather than the passenger).

It isn't helpful, however, for someone planning a trip to Blackpool who doesn't know which one to search for journeys to.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks, that explains the difference to how Birmingham group works (obviously to benefit the privatised rail industry rather than the passenger).

They weren’t anything specifically to do with privatisation. The fares group Birmingham BR seems to date from 1988. In most fares groups “xxx stations” replaced “xxx BR”, and exactly the same issue (ie not knowing exactly what it meant) would have been in place long before privatisation was thought of.

 

[OscarH]

It isn't helpful, however, for someone planning a trip to Blackpool who doesn't know which one to search for journeys to.

Indeed, these National Rail Enquires "timetable" groups (which some retailers also use to various extents) do serve a useful purpose

 

[Haywain]

Indeed, these National Rail Enquires "timetable" groups (which some retailers also use to various extents) do serve a useful purpose

They can also mislead, which is rather less helpful.