BKJ to CTK ticket options- price/validity?

[redbutton]

I'm looking at replacing my usual Zones 1-4 Travelcard with a monthly season ticket to save money. This would be primarily for travel between Beckenham Jn and City Thameslink, though I'm definitely interested in getting the most flexibility for my money.

BKJ - London Terminals:
7DS SEVEN DAY STD ◊ AAA CLOCK HOUSE ATOC-RSP NO £31.10

But then if I price it a bit further by going to West Hampstead...

BKJ - West Hampstead Stns:
7DS SEVEN DAY STD ◊ NOT UNDERGROUND ATOC-RSP NO £29.50

The NRG says that Beckenham Jn routing point to West Hampstead routing point is via LONDON. So I've got a couple of questions about this:

Am I correct in thinking that this would allow me to stop short at CTK?

Would I be able to travel to other London Terminals (say LBG or VIC) and exit there, since I'm allowed to take any permitted route from A to London then any other permitted route from London to B?

Are there other combinations of origin and destination that would get me additional flexibility, but also be valid for my BKJ-CTK commute? For example: a ticket originating at Shortlands at the same price.

Final question: does "NOT UNDERGROUND" mean no TfL services whatsoever, or literally just Underground? Would the ticket be valid on Overground via Clapham Junction, for example?

Thanks for your advice!

ian

 

[maniacmartin]

Am I correct in thinking that this would allow me to stop short at CTK?

That is correct. You can start or finish short at any intermediate station on any permitted route if you're travelling on a season ticket.

Would I be able to travel to other London Terminals (say LBG or VIC) and exit there, since I'm allowed to take any permitted route from A to London then any other permitted route from London to B?

I hold a different season ticket routed NOT UNDERGROUND so have looked into this in the past. London Bridge is en route to Thameslink anyway so that is fine. As for Victoria, its a bit of a grey area, and I'm slightly inclined to believe that you are permitted to go to any London terminal for which you can find a mapped route, but would obviously have to make your way across London at your own expense. That said, I would not attempt to use the ticket like this, as it will lead to hassle.

does "NOT UNDERGROUND" mean no TfL services whatsoever, or literally just Underground? Would the ticket be valid on Overground via Clapham Junction, for example?

NOT UNDERGROUND means you cant take London Underground services. You can still take the Overground, if it lies on a permitted route, as London Overground is (contrary to the belief of many staff) a National Rail TOC specified in the NRCoC.

 

[RJ]

I hold a different season ticket routed NOT UNDERGROUND so have looked into this in the past. London Bridge is en route to Thameslink anyway so that is fine. As for Victoria, its a bit of a grey area, and I'm slightly inclined to believe that you are permitted to go to any London terminal for which you can find a mapped route, but would obviously have to make your way across London at your own expense. That said, I would not attempt to use the ticket like this, as it will lead to hassle.

ATOC say no - unless the ticket has a cross London marker, you can't use Not Underground tickets where there is a break in continuity when crossing London. You have to use either of the tunnels - though London Overground appears to be stealthily getting rid of Not Underground flows valid via the ELL, in some cases introducing via Surrey Quays fares at identical prices to the Not Underground flows where they can't have them removed.

 

[maniacmartin]

Do you have a link to a source for ATOC's opinion on this? I've been unable to find anything official

 

[RJ]

Do you have a link to a source for ATOC's opinion on this? I've been unable to find anything official

Only an email from them. I only ask them so I know whether or not I can count on their stance in the eventuality of a subsequent dispute, no other reason.