Blackpool - Euston services

[Clip]

Hi all

with the demise of the Grand Central plans for the above service is there anything on the horizon to replace them? Are Avanti West Coast going to be offering anymore does anyone know?

 

[The Planner]

Hi all

with the demise of the Grand Central plans for the above service is there anything on the horizon to replace them? Are Avanti West Coast going to be offering anymore does anyone know?

I wouldn't expect more than what there already is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hi all

with the demise of the Grand Central plans for the above service is there anything on the horizon to replace them? Are Avanti West Coast going to be offering anymore does anyone know?

With easy connections every hour at Preston and twice an hour via Manchester (though one better timed than the other as it's 2 into 3) there's little need.

 

[Agent_Squash]

The only justification for running Avanti services to Blackpool is the massive platform extension work done as part of the rebuild a few years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only justification for running Avanti services to Blackpool is the massive platform extension work done as part of the rebuild a few years ago.

Part of that was to allow Northern to run longer trains, to be fair.

The only real justification is because it avoids blocking a platform at Preston, which is why the Glasgow services went there instead for a bit.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Part of that was to allow Northern to run longer trains, to be fair.

The only real justification is because it avoids blocking a platform at Preston, which is why the Glasgow services went there instead for a bit.

Even allowing for 8x331 (192m) still infrastructure that probably didn’t need to be as overspecced as it was. But that’s what franchise commitments do!

Although wasn’t there some issue in going to Lancaster and back in the existing path which made Blackpool the better option?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even allowing for 8x331 (192m) still infrastructure that probably didn’t need to be as overspecced as it was. But that’s what franchise commitments do!

Although wasn’t there some issue in going to Lancaster and back in the existing path which made Blackpool the better option?

You'd either be blocking the WCML or Platform 5, the latter is used for Leeds and Barrow services. And 5 may be too short for an 11 car Pendolino (I'm not quite sure, but it is about 2 coaches shorter than 4).

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The Euston to Blackpool services they introduced just before Covid were wonderful. Felt so good being able to get on your train at BPN and relax all the way to Euston. Would be great if they brought them back.

 

[Agent_Squash]

You'd either be blocking the WCML or Platform 5, the latter is used for Leeds and Barrow services. And 5 may be too short for an 11 car Pendolino (I'm not quite sure, but it is about 2 coaches shorter than 4).

Isn’t the standard deal with Lancaster terminators to lob them into Carnforth reversing? Although there is (or at least was) a terminator in the evening that turns around on P3 around 2030.

Ultimately the WCML needs consistent timings as far as possible - and inconsistent 3tph in one, 4tph in the other, causes headaches.

 

[Some guy]

The agreement was always 3tpd they used to go via Trent valley calling at Rugby but since Covid the Blackpool services have gone via midlands although does mean direct services to the West Midlands stations but takes ages. It’s far easier to change at Preston and it’s just 2 hours 10 minutes to London

The Euston to Blackpool services they introduced just before Covid were wonderful. Felt so good being able to get on your train at BPN and relax all the way to Euston. Would be great if they brought them back.

They was brilliant it meant more services to London out of Preston and also gave Rugby a service to the north west without go via Birmingham

 

[Bald Rick]

Would be great if they brought them back.

It would be even better if more than a handful of people used them.

unfortunately, they were very poorly patronised between Preston and Blackpool.

 

[6Gman]

It would be even better if more than a handful of people used them.

unfortunately, they were very poorly patronised between Preston and Blackpool.

We used to use the afternoon Euston - Blackpool from Stafford. Often had an entire carriage to ourselves!

 

[RobShipway]

Surely, once the class 805/807 units have joined Advanti there is scope for at least some of those to be used on Euston - Blackpool North as long as there is enough crew? I note from Realtime trains for today, that there was suppose to be a 5:30am departure which was due to be one or class 221 Voyager. The next service at 7:44am is the one and only Pendolino service as the later service into Blackpool North is a 5 car class 221 Voyager at 8pm.

 

[dk1]

Will be 3 each way on weekdays from the May TT change. Only the 05:35 ex-Blackpool & 17:07 ex-Euston operate via the Trent Valley. All others are as said the services via the West Mids that would’ve gone to Glasgow. Most of those introduced hastily under VT were quite poorly timed which didn’t help with loadings. I expected them to do the honours at Warrington & Wigan to allowing a speed up of the Glasgow service but instead they just followed a few minutes behind with extra Rugby calls.

Although useful, the Fylde coast extensions from Preston have always been rather a damp squib even under BR and often only as an operational convenience rather than blocking platforms at Preston.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would it not be beneficial to use the new Class 807 trains on the Blackpool services?

 

[dk1]

Would it not be beneficial to use the new Class 807 trains on the Blackpool services?

I thought Blackpool was part of their planned operating route along with Liverpool & Birmingham/Wolverhampton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought Blackpool was part of their planned operating route along with Liverpool & Birmingham/Wolverhampton.

I half recall 805s (not 807s) being involved in some sort of portion work involving Blackpool and possibly somewhere else via Chester?

 

[dk1]

I half recall 805s (not 807s) being involved in some sort of portion work involving Blackpool and possibly somewhere else via Chester?

I thought it was a bit of both & that 807s would work through on occasional West Mids extensions. Don’t think they are planned to go north of Preston however.

Not always the most reliable source but Wiki shows them as serving Blackpool on the AWC page.

 

[Some guy]

I thought it was a bit of both & that 807s would work through on occasional West Mids extensions. Don’t think they are planned to go north of Preston however.

Not always the most reliable source but Wiki shows them as serving Blackpool on the AWC page.

It will make sense as 807’s only have 14 less seats than a 9 car pendolino but would. If the 2nd Liverpool doesn’t go ahead they most likely will be used more often on the Blackpool services

 

[Bald Rick]

If the 2nd Liverpool doesn’t go ahead they most likely will be used more often on the Blackpool services

If the 2nd Liverpool doesn’t go ahead (and my hunch is that they will do)…but if it doesn’t, then they most likely will be repainted…

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the 2nd Liverpool doesn’t go ahead (and my hunch is that they will do)…but if it doesn’t, then they most likely will be repainted…

Or Avanti take over Manchester to Scotland, for which they'd be ideal.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Part of that was to allow Northern to run longer trains, to be fair.

The only real justification is because it avoids blocking a platform at Preston, which is why the Glasgow services went there instead for a bit.

The pair of longer platforms were specified to enable 11 car cl 390. At the time I think Virgin West Coast had a franchise committment to serve Blackpool (likewise I would guess the present incumbent) which intially they did with Voyagers.

 

[Clip]

I wouldn't expect more than what there already is.

Shame that mind.

With easy connections every hour at Preston and twice an hour via Manchester (though one better timed than the other as it's 2 into 3) there's little need.

Theres every need thanks - more so because they were going to have a brand new service start from there ( granted probably for the Preston southwards people but if they have a regular service it would take some of the cars off the road which plague the town centre

It would be even better if more than a handful of people used them.

unfortunately, they were very poorly patronised between Preston and Blackpool.

in the off season yes but i sit in an office opposite and during the summer months there were hoards of people piling out of them so back to crammed 6 carriage trains it is then

 

[Bald Rick]

Shame that mind.

Theres every need thanks - more so because they were going to have a brand new service start from there ( granted probably for the Preston southwards people but if they have a regular service it would take some of the cars off the road which plague the town centre

in the off season yes but i sit in an office opposite and during the summer months there were hoards of people piling out of them so back to crammed 6 carriage trains it is then

well every time I’ve seen them in the summer months, they’ve been empty. The last one I used between Blackpool and Preston, in the middle of the day last August, had 13 people on it. And the revenue numbers support that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is running a token service between Euston / Preston / Blackpool North some kind of ORCATS raid by Avanti?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is running a token service between Euston / Preston / Blackpool North some kind of ORCATS raid by Avanti?

No it is
a) for operational reasons principally to do with platform capacity at Preston, and
b) political reasons.

 

[cle]

Is running a token service between Euston / Preston / Blackpool North some kind of ORCATS raid by Avanti?

A raid of nothing, lol.

It would be far better to send an hourly to Lancaster, tbh. More of a market, and at least some onward connections. And cover off the core WCML stops down to Crewe/Stafford even.

 

[AndrewE]

All others are as said the services via the West Mids that would’ve gone to Glasgow.

This is appalling. No worthwhile/useable WCML service between Brum and Glasgow is totally unacceptable. The current option seems to be "get a train to Crewe, another to Preston then change again for Glasgow!"
Thank goodness that NRE seems to say that on a random day in April there will be direct Brum to Glasgow trains again.

 

[irish_rail]

If the 2nd Liverpool doesn’t go ahead (and my hunch is that they will do)…but if it doesn’t, then they most likely will be repainted…

Interesting. What colour i wonder..... though much as I'd like to see some 7 car sets on the Western or XC, frankly Liverpool does warrant 2 tph to London , and this service does need to happen.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Is running a token service between Euston / Preston / Blackpool North some kind of ORCATS raid by Avanti?

No it is
a) for operational reasons principally to do with platform capacity at Preston, and
b) political reasons.

And, as stated previously it is a requirement of the Franchise Agreement and follow on Management Contracts.