BT and EE annual increase of RPI +3.9%

[75A]

Why are you apparently trying to defend them? Just curious.

Don't you think that it's morally wrong (though apparently not illegal) to be charged more than the cost of the line rental and the calls?

No, I don't think it's morally wrong, it's what you get in a Free Market Economy.
Whenever my contract is up, be it for Broadband, Mobile, Electricity, Car / House Insurance I hunt for the best deal.

 

[JamesT]

On a related matter, how do BT get away with charging you more than the total cost of the (land) line rental and bill?

In my case they are already charging a very expensive £30 line rental per month. In addition to that, in the last bill period I made £16 worth of calls.

So why are they charging me £51 per month?

Presumably your bill will tell you what that other £5 is for, if it’s already split out those other numbers?

 

[Joe Paxton]

I don't have a real issue with increasing prices in line with inflation, it's the 3.9% bit on top that grates - including how we reached that figure, and every network followed.

If it was just RPI or CPI then fine.
[...]

Agreed. One can offer a strong argument to justify a price increase in line with inflation, in that the costs to the telecoms firm will also have risen... but baking in an annual rise on top of that actually fuels the underlying rate of inflation in the economy!

 

[507021]

The latest increase for my internet is over 12%, so my partner and I are now considering switching to another provider for our new house. While the service we've received has been very good, the bill has more than doubled since I took over the account after my Dad's passing a few years ago. I tried to negotiate a better deal last year and also a couple of weeks ago, but all were a waste of time and only proved there's no incentive for longstanding customers. I have no problem with annual increases at the rate of inflation, but the extra 3.9% on top "just because" is pure greed.

 

[jon0844]

The silly thing is you can sign a two year contract, get stung with a 10+% increase 1 year in, and then at the end of your minimum term give notice and find they'll offer you price that brings you back to what you paid in the first place, and sometimes even less!

They say they need to increase your bill part way through a contract, yet they keep charging new customers the same rate they once charged you.

I wonder what would happen if Ofcom said 'sure, you can increase by CPI+xx%, but you need to increase every single plan for new customers too'.

 

[nw1]

Presumably your bill will tell you what that other £5 is for, if it’s already split out those other numbers?

From what I can make out it's some kind of estimate/assumption of how many calls I will make in future months.

But wildly wrong as I have made £16 of calls in the past three.

They seem to do this: overestimate your bill, charge you a certain monthly amount, then cut it when they realise you aren't using that amount.

Still seems wrong to me, though obviously it's legal. Would the railways like it if you only paid them half the price of the ticket as long as you promised to pay the other half later? I suspect you'd be in court for a RoRA offence if you tried that one on!

The law does seem to be soft on corporations, letting them get away with things which individuals would not be able to get away with.

 

[JamesT]

From what I can make out it's some kind of estimate/assumption of how many calls I will make in future months.

But wildly wrong as I have made £16 of calls in the past three.

They seem to do this: overestimate your bill, charge you a certain monthly amount, then cut it when they realise you aren't using that amount.

Still seems wrong to me, though obviously it's legal. Would the railways like it if you only paid them half the price of the ticket as long as you promised to pay the other half later? I suspect you'd be in court for a RoRA offence if you tried that one on!

The law does seem to be soft on corporations, letting them get away with things which individuals would not be able to get away with.

They're charging you like an electricity company? Weird, I've never seen a telecoms company do that.

Okay, with a bit of digging this appears to be a thing called a 'Monthly Payment Plan' - https://www.bt.com/help/account-and...d-my-bill/help-with-paying-bt-by-direct-debit

A Monthly Payment Plan lets you spread the cost of your quarterly bill by making fixed monthly payments by Direct Debit, based on an estimate. Each quarter we review your payments. If you’re paying more or less than you’ve used, we’ll let you know through your quarterly statement and automatically adjust your payments.

This sounds like something you'd have chosen to be on, or perhaps it's a historical legacy? Either way, you can ask BT to switch to paying the exact amount you've used each month instead.

 

[SteveP29]

I think the March 2023 BT price increase was really a total increase of around the 14% mark, as the RPI calculation itself was in double figures.

Correct, Myself, partner, stepson and stepdaughter. Our broadband and Parents broadband, all on BT/EE, all went up 14% last year, that's what finally forced me to go sim only after 24 years of being a contract customer with Orange/ EE and facing a monthly charge over £35 for the first time

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anyone worked out how BT set their price structure for the "unlimited minutes" charge that can be added to a package of telecommunications?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Has anyone worked out how BT set their price structure for the "unlimited minutes" charge that can be added to a package of telecommunications?

I think they take an average of the call usage across their entire customer database and add that, plus a percentage, to their fixed costs and set the resultant figure as the base price for their tariffs.

 

[nw1]

They're charging you like an electricity company? Weird, I've never seen a telecoms company do that.

Okay, with a bit of digging this appears to be a thing called a 'Monthly Payment Plan' - https://www.bt.com/help/account-and...d-my-bill/help-with-paying-bt-by-direct-debit


This sounds like something you'd have chosen to be on, or perhaps it's a historical legacy? Either way, you can ask BT to switch to paying the exact amount you've used each month instead.

Ah thanks, yes that sounds like it could be the case. It is something I've been on for ages, probably since 2010 or before, never bothered to change until now but becoming increasingly concerned about the magnitude of the payments. For one thing the line rental (which is based on a certain call plan) isn't good value.

Still annoying though. Will take a look at the website to see if I can change it online as it's a PITA trying to call them.

 

[GusB]

Ah thanks, yes that sounds like it could be the case. It is something I've been on for ages, probably since 2010 or before, never bothered to change until now but becoming increasingly concerned about the magnitude of the payments. For one thing the line rental (which is based on a certain call plan) isn't good value.

Still annoying though. Will take a look at the website to see if I can change it online as it's a PITA trying to call them.

To be honest, I'm rather confused as to how you've ended up in this situation. I pay a fixed amount to BT each month and it includes my broadband and an unlimited UK calls package. There hasn't been "line rental" for quite a while.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To be honest, I'm rather confused as to how you've ended up in this situation. I pay a fixed amount to BT each month and it includes my broadband and an unlimited UK calls package. There hasn't been "line rental" for quite a while.

I have a BT Halo 3+ package that includes a Landline, Unlimited Calls and a 900mb Broadband system. I still have the same quarterly contract and pay a direct debit payment. on the 1st of each month. When I joined BT in 1975, it was to have a telephone service put into our first house when we married. There was no internet in those far-off days.

 

[nw1]

To be honest, I'm rather confused as to how you've ended up in this situation. I pay a fixed amount to BT each month and it includes my broadband and an unlimited UK calls package. There hasn't been "line rental" for quite a while.

Maybe I was using "line rental" out of habit. The fixed amount (£30 odd) is a monthly charge which includes unlimited calls at certain times.

What is odd though is the way that it varies every three months and appears to go up by a disproportionate amount (more than the cost of the calls) if I make more calls (and then down later) - this is what I was objecting to. So for the next three months I'm being charged £51. So I overpay them, and then the bill goes down later to compensate. @JamesT has I think explained it though. Still seems wrong to me to be paying them more than I owe though, which seems to be the case from my understanding of the situation.

 

[sor]

Wasn't aware BT still did quarterly billing.

As for the perceived cheaper options like either of the CFs - I suspect they won't stay that way for much longer. The so called "altnets" (some of whom use Openreach's duct and pole network anyway) are generally in quite perilous financial positions. Their main business case was to provide a service Openreach wouldn't (ie full fibre), but Openreach is doing just that, on a larger scale, and at sensible prices. Much whinging to Ofcom has taken place but they aren't going to knobble BT as has happened in previous decades. Now they're having to resort to significant discounts to get customers to switch.

Virgin Media's parent company has also just announced that they're planning to provide similar "wholesale" services in both their existing cabled areas and in new fibre-only builds. I wouldn't want to work for an altnet right now...

 

[jfollows]

Wasn't aware BT still did quarterly billing.

Maybe it's just because it used to be more the "default" and it stays with people who stay around?
I get a quarterly bill for phone and Internet although it gets paid by Direct Debit based on my actual usage, and they send me a bill a couple of weeks in advance.

 

[DelW]

Maybe I was using "line rental" out of habit. The fixed amount (£30 odd) is a monthly charge which includes unlimited calls at certain times.

What is odd though is the way that it varies every three months and appears to go up by a disproportionate amount (more than the cost of the calls) if I make more calls (and then down later) - this is what I was objecting to. So for the next three months I'm being charged £51. So I overpay them, and then the bill goes down later to compensate. @JamesT has I think explained it though. Still seems wrong to me to be paying them more than I owe though, which seems to be the case from my understanding of the situation.

That does seem surprisingly high. I have a legacy BT landline since mobile reception at home is poor (only really works reliably upstairs or outside), and looking back over my recent bills, I've only once paid over £50 per quarter, and then only just - all the others were in the £40 - 50 range. I don't make many outgoing calls as I generally chat with friends over WhatsApp, but various relatives still prefer to call me via landline, and all sorts of businesses that I deal with only have my BT number.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

.... various relatives still prefer to call me via landline.

I too find this to be the case and many of these are well past "the spring chicken" age range. Give it just over another year and I will be joining Octogenarians Anonymous...

 

[jon0844]

You could always divert calls to a mobile, or migrate the number to a VoIP service that diverts to a mobile. Then people can still call a landline number and never know the difference.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You could always divert calls to a mobile, or migrate the number to a VoIP service that diverts to a mobile. Then people can still call a landline number and never know the difference.

But why do that when you already have a landline? Mine has just gone over to Digital Voice, but I still have the same BT trio ones that all still work as normal. The only reason why I bought the cheapest mobile phone sold in the EE shop was just in case Digital Voice goes down and I have emergency call cover.

 

[jon0844]

I lost my landline due to digital voice. As I am with BT and use my own mesh network router (instead of the crappy BT smart hub) I can't connect my phone.

Other ISPs may opt to do things differently.

 

[davews]

Have other BT users had notification of this increase yet, nothing here.
I moved over to BT FTTP last summer, it has been pretty reliable. Digital voice with my old BT DECT handsets plugged into the BT hub just works. I have the 300 minutes/month package, use nothing like that but I do need the phone and am not a mobile fan.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I lost my landline due to digital voice. As I am with BT and use my own mesh network router (instead of the crappy BT smart hub) I can't connect my phone.

Other ISPs may opt to do things differently.

How is that so? I too am with BT on the Digital Voice saystem and still have use of the same BT trio phones that I have had for a number of years with the same telephone number and the 900Mb Halo 3+ broadband. My package covers landline, broadband and unlimited calls, together will the usual extras of 1471, 1571 and 1572 systems.

 

[jon0844]

You can only use your existing phones via the BT (or EE) Smart Hub. Once I was switched, my copper line ceased to work. Well, I get a dial tone but can't use it. At some point in the future it will go dead.

I don't wish to use the Smart Hub, nor connect the Smart Hub and then connect my router/mesh network to the back of that. Other ISPs have opted for other ways to provide a fixed landline offering. BT won't allow other companies access, presumably for security reasons. If they just opted to use a normal VoIP system, I could use any router.

And of course there's the issue of having no phone if the power fails anymore. While I had two DECT phones, I had a plain phone for emergencies. Now it's a case of relying on a mobile network - of which usually have battery backup only for 30 minutes or so.

Progress, huh!

 

[sor]

You can only use your existing phones via the BT (or EE) Smart Hub. Once I was switched, my copper line ceased to work. Well, I get a dial tone but can't use it. At some point in the future it will go dead.

I don't wish to use the Smart Hub, nor connect the Smart Hub and then connect my router/mesh network to the back of that. Other ISPs have opted for other ways to provide a fixed landline offering. BT won't allow other companies access, presumably for security reasons. If they just opted to use a normal VoIP system, I could use any router.

Don't think any of BT's peers allow access either. AIUI it's considered a landline service, even if it uses VoIP technologies, and that means BT (and certainly Sky as well) have chosen to maintain full control. They can't be fussed with Ofcom complaints because someone's misconfigured or incompatible device does not work properly. In their view, the supplied router has a connector on the back that allows people to use their existing phone and that's the box ticked

There is a compromise on the business side though - they continue to supply a separate adapter or DECT system that can be connected to any router. I suspect they know that most consumers don't bother using 3rd party equipment whereas businesses are more likely to do so, and will hopefully have IT people who know what they're doing

And of course there's the issue of having no phone if the power fails anymore. While I had two DECT phones, I had a plain phone for emergencies. Now it's a case of relying on a mobile network - of which usually have battery backup only for 30 minutes or so.

Progress, huh!

Well, yes, but how many people followed that otherwise very sensible advice to keep a corded phone around. You could of course buy a UPS for the BT router - if you were using it

 

[jon0844]

I do intend to buy a UPS for the ONT and router, which could also potentially power a LTE/NR router. So far I've not invested and am relying on one network not being impacted (as I have SIMs for all four operators).

The last power outage took everything out over a wide area. The main plan is to get a home battery to not just keep the Internet going, but enable us to still keep lights on etc.

Years ago people would have a battery (maybe when wind up) radio to listen to news/advice if there was a major incident. Now most people don't have a radio, I'd imagine, losing power can leave you very isolated even in a big town.

 

[gswindale]

I do intend to buy a UPS for the ONT and router, which could also potentially power a LTE/NR router. So far I've not invested and am relying on one network not being impacted (as I have SIMs for all four operators).

The last power outage took everything out over a wide area. The main plan is to get a home battery to not just keep the Internet going, but enable us to still keep lights on etc.

Years ago people would have a battery (maybe when wind up) radio to listen to news/advice if there was a major incident. Now most people don't have a radio, I'd imagine, losing power can leave you very isolated even in a big town.

To some extent, it is a cost/risk balancing exercise.

We've been in our current house 9 years. I can't remember when we had a power outage of any significant length - my gut feeling was it was over 10 years ago. Is it worth me keeping a battery powered radio that will need the batteries replacing every couple of years just in case we have a once in a generation power failure?

 

[jon0844]

I doubt the batteries would need changing if you didn't use it, but - yes - it is a gamble. I am thinking more for some major outage perhaps due to some extreme weather event, or even some other natural disaster, where people today are actually less likely to be able to get information than decades ago because we simply aren't used to the thought of preparing for events given how rare they are.

I am no Doomsday Prepper but there is some logic to having some sort of plan for a major incident.