Bulleid SR prototype sleeping car

[32475]

This month, Rail-online included a remarkable photo from September 1946 of a prototype Bulleid sleeping car at Lancing Carriage Works (the photo shows it being shunted outside the works by a LBSCR Terrier).
I can’t do a link to the website, however I never new that Oliver Bulleid had ever designed a sleeping car and which I presume was designed for use as an overnight Devon / Cornwall sleeper service. What a shame this never came into being but does anyone have any information about this project?

 

[etr221]

It was a one off, departmental, vehicle, for travelling railway officers/other staff - I'm not sure if the intention was for 'sleep on the move' or 'sleep on site' use. Unusually - at least for Britain/Europe - sleeping berths were longitudinal, with (IIRC) compartments arranged both sides of a central corridor.

 

[32475]

It was a one off, departmental, vehicle, for travelling railway officers/other staff - I'm not sure if the intention was for 'sleep on the move' or 'sleep on site' use. Unusually - at least for Britain/Europe - sleeping berths were longitudinal, with (IIRC) compartments arranged both sides of a central corridor.

Many thanks for your response etr221. That does make sense because the design of the carriage looks distinctly utilitarian but unmistakably Bulleid.

 

[6Gman]

It was a one off, departmental, vehicle, for travelling railway officers/other staff - I'm not sure if the intention was for 'sleep on the move' or 'sleep on site' use. Unusually - at least for Britain/Europe - sleeping berths were longitudinal, with (IIRC) compartments arranged both sides of a central corridor.

With longtitudinal berths presumably for "sleep on site" use. Aren't there safety issues for loingtitudinal "on the move" sleeping?

I presume this was 100S, described as an Inspection Saloon (Sleeping Car) built July 1946, withdrawn December 1953.

 

[pdeaves]

Aren't there safety issues for loingtitudinal "on the move" sleeping?

Now, yes. Were such concerns understood then?

 

[6Gman]

Now, yes. Were such concerns understood then?

Possibly not. Good point.

Remarkably it appears the coach is available as a OO gauge model, though not cheap. £101 as a kit, nearly £300 ready to run (though you also get the associated generator van).

 

[Gloster]

The coach was officially known as an Inspection Saloon and authority was never obtained from the SR Board to build it. The body was built entirely of plywood and it had non-standard bogies. It was accompanied by the Generator Van, a PMV with a false plywood covering to give it the same profile as 100S, two Maunsell Dining Cars and a Maunsell Nondescript Brake. Completed in July 1946, it was officially withdrawn in December 1953, stripped in 1955 and burnt in 1956; it does not seem to have done many trips.

Source: Bulleid’s S.R. Steam Passenger Stock (Gould, Oakwood, 1980.)

 

[32475]

Thank you all for your comments and information. There’s always something new to learn!

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @4SubAsociation to add to

 

[4SubAsociation]

Thank you. I was looking around for 4SUB photos and found this website. When searching i believe to have found some interior photos of S100.

Link is below.

RCHS Online Media Archive | SR Coaching Stock [2]

rchsimagearchive.org.uk

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

Now, yes. Were such concerns understood then?

Do we understand why that arrangement is too dangerous on a train but OK on the bespoke overnight buses?

 

[30907]

Do we understand why that arrangement is too dangerous on a train but OK on the bespoke overnight buses?

AIUI the issue was/is not horizontal berths but near-horizontal recliners.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Thank you. I was looking around for 4SUB photos and found this website. When searching i believe to have found some interior photos of S100.

Link is below.

RCHS Online Media Archive | SR Coaching Stock [2]

rchsimagearchive.org.uk

It would appear that the 3-berth accommodation was transverse, only the 2-berth was longitudinal. And unless it's an oddity of the lens used to take a photograph in a fairly confined space, the 2-berth compartment had one bed shorter than the other!

 

[norbitonflyer]

With longtitudinal berths presumably for "sleep on site" use. Aren't there safety issues for loingtitudinal "on the move" sleeping?

As has been mentioned before, it seemed to be commonplace on American railroads - see the train scene in "Some Like it Hot" for example.

 

[WesternLancer]

As has been mentioned before, it seemed to be commonplace on American railroads - see the train scene in "Some Like it Hot" for example.

Current Amtrak sleepers have longitudinal berths iirc. Tho they weren’t built recently.

Thank you. I was looking around for 4SUB photos and found this website. When searching i believe to have found some interior photos of S100.

Link is below.

RCHS Online Media Archive | SR Coaching Stock [2]

rchsimagearchive.org.uk

Thanks for reopening thread to post this. Fascinating and very interesting to see.

Anyone have any links to external pics as I note original thread didn’t include any?

 

[Gloster]

A plan in Gould (see #7) shows a central corridor and twelve side-cabins with longitudinal berths, one being for the attendant, each cabin being approximately 9’ 5” long. There was also a toilet and a shower; the latter apparently at Mr Bulleid’s behest.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Current Amtrak sleepers have longitudinal berths iirc. Tho they weren’t built recently.


Thanks for reopening thread to post this. Fascinating and very interesting to see.

Anyone have any links to external pics as I note original thread didn’t include any?

One of the Australian sleepers (I think its the Indian Pacific) has longitudinal single cabins with a smart wavy S-shape corridor which affords more space at the foot of each bed for changing and washing, narrowing at the head of the bed and allowing more space for the opposite cabin.

Like Amtrak roomettes, the bed converts to a seat at the window in the day in the normal orientation, something our sleepers don't have but also don't really need as they aren't long enough to have much day running.

 

[Rescars]

AIUI, designs for Royal Trains have tended to favour longitudinal sleeping, ever since Queen Adelaide's carriage for the London and Birmingham in 1842 was fitted with a box like extension to accommodate the royal feet!

 

[Helvellyn]

AIUI, designs for Royal Trains have tended to favour longitudinal sleeping, ever since Queen Adelaide's carriage for the London and Birmingham in 1842 was fitted with a box like extension to accommodate the royal feet!

Though I think the Royal Train is usually stabled overnight in a remote siding to allow undisturbed sleep. The beds are also central in the vehicle, which would reduce the impact of movement around curves.