Burscough Curves route combinations.

[Loop Line]

At the time the Burscugh Curves were in operation, there was apparently provision for trains between Southport and Ormskirk, as well as Southprt and Preston. I was wondering if these were drect trains or that passengers got off at Burscough Bridge and got another train to go via the curves either north or south. Perhaps the Preston train would go via the south curve to Burscough junction then reverse t Preston allowing people who got off at BJunc. to continue to Ormskirk on another train. Did trains from Manchester use the curves to go to Preston and Ormskirk by reversing out of Burcough Bridge? What exactly where the combinations and frequencies allowed by this track arrangement?

 

[30907]

From a quick glance at a couple of postwar timetables I can only find Ormskirk-Southport (or short workings).

 

[Darren R]

Regular, scheduled passenger services certainly ran between Southport Chapel Street and Ormskirk via the west-to-south curve at Burscough. They continued until the early 1960s.

However, I don't think the west-to-north curve ever carried regular, scheduled passenger services. Trains between Southport and Preston or East Lancashire always ran via the former West Lancashire Railway route via Crossens. The curve may have been used for excursions or special holiday trains during Wakes Weeks, but other than that I believe it was only used for freight.

 

[Lankyline]

Regular, scheduled passenger services certainly ran between Southport Chapel Street and Ormskirk via the west-to-south curve at Burscough. They continued until the early 1960s.

However, I don't think the west-to-north curve ever carried regular, scheduled passenger services. Trains between Southport and Preston or East Lancashire always ran via the former West Lancashire Railway route via Crossens. The curve may have been used for excursions or special holiday trains during Wakes Weeks, but other than that I believe it was only used for freight.

Your right it never did, the south curve stayed in use for connection to the RO munitions factory at Burscough and I believe, a regular newspaper train. but the land the curves are sited on is still owned by NR.

 

[L+Y]

Regular, scheduled passenger services certainly ran between Southport Chapel Street and Ormskirk via the west-to-south curve at Burscough. They continued until the early 1960s.

However, I don't think the west-to-north curve ever carried regular, scheduled passenger services. Trains between Southport and Preston or East Lancashire always ran via the former West Lancashire Railway route via Crossens. The curve may have been used for excursions or special holiday trains during Wakes Weeks, but other than that I believe it was only used for freight.

I think you're right on this. The last regular working over the North Curve was a Blackpool-Southport ECS working, on, I think, Saturdays only. There was also a light loco working, of which more below. The North Curve was closed and severed at the Rufford end in 1969, and the Burscough Bridge end in 1971, though the track stayed down until into the mid 1970s. See here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/63333186@N02/19317309820

Your right it never did, the south curve stayed in use for connection to the RO munitions factory at Burscough and I believe, a regular newspaper train. but the land the curves are sited on is still owned by NR.

South Curve stayed in use until about 1981, though it was physically disconnected from the Ormskirk line after summer 1970: it crossed over a flat diamond crossing.

The newspaper train you allude to was a very early morning Manchester-Southport turn that was, incidentally, the only working to ever be diagrammed for a class 50 on the Wallgate-Southport line. The loco would detach at Southport (think it ran into the old Southport Central station, then still in use as a goods shed) and then return to Burscough Bridge. It ran up the North Curve, crossed over there, and then ran down to Kirkdale carriage sidings to collect the stock for the 9AM Liverpool Exchange - Glasgow working.

Obviously this will have ceased in the period between July 1969 and May 1970, when the loco-hauled expresses ran out of Exchange but the North Curve was severed. The locomotive presumably either ran to Liverpool via the coast line and turned at Sandhills, or else via the South Curve. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that by this point, Burscough Junction South, a draughty wooden box, was mostly switched out, so perhaps the coast line was used.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

At the time the Burscugh Curves were in operation, there was apparently provision for trains between Southport and Ormskirk, as well as Southprt and Preston. I was wondering if these were drect trains or that passengers got off at Burscough Bridge and got another train to go via the curves either north or south. Perhaps the Preston train would go via the south curve to Burscough junction then reverse t Preston allowing people who got off at BJunc. to continue to Ormskirk on another train. Did trains from Manchester use the curves to go to Preston and Ormskirk by reversing out of Burcough Bridge? What exactly where the combinations and frequencies allowed by this track arrangement?

Until summer 1964 there was a Saturdays only Southport Chapel St - Glasgow Central. In 1959 the train left Southport at 9.10 am and was joined to the 9.15 am Saturdays only Liverpool Exchange- Glasgow Central, most probably at Preston. I presume the train used the North Burscough curve as services from Southport to Preston over the West Lancs route used the Preston East Lancs platforms.The train from Liverpool Exchange strangely stopped at Burscough Junction to pick-up only.


Summer Saturdays in 1965 ( the year following the closure of the Southport- Preston line) there was a direct Southport - Colne service, arriving in Southport at 10.35 am returning to Colne at 7.40 pm. The return trip made a first stop at Bamber Bridge 29 mins after leaving Southport, such a timing leaves little doubt that the train was routed via the North Burscough curve.

The following year the service was discontinued.

B & R Video Production's Vol.71 - Lancashire & Yorkshire Memories Part 5 has rare footage of both the Burscough curves being used by enthusiasts specials and light- engines.

If you are interested, I can add scans of the relevent timetable pages.

 

[L+Y]

Until summer 1964 there was a Saturdays only Southport Chapel St - Glasgow Central. In 1959 the train left Southport at 9.10 am and was joined to the 9.15 am Saturdays only Liverpool Exchange- Glasgow Central, most probably at Preston. I presume the train used the North Burscough curve as services from Southport to Preston over the West Lancs route used the Preston East Lancs platforms.The train from Liverpool Exchange strangely stopped at Burscough Junction to pick-up only.

I think the portions were actually combined at Burscough Junction, strange to say. I believe that the Southport carriages ran into the bay platforms at BCJ and were then marshalled into the main rake when it arrived from Ormskirk.

Always interested to see relevant 1960s timetables though!

 

[30907]

I think the portions were actually combined at Burscough Junction, strange to say. I believe that the Southport carriages ran into the bay platforms at BCJ and were then marshalled into the main rake when it arrived from Ormskirk.

Always interested to see relevant 1960s timetables though!

That's the way the train appears in the Liverpool-Preston table (148) for summer 1958.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Here are four scans from the London Midland Region timetable 14 June 1965 to 17 April 1966 showing the Colne to Southport service.

Looking at the departures from Colne, table 106, if you just missed the 8.48 to Blackpool you could still have a day at the sea-side by taking the 8.58 to Southport ! Happy days indeed !

 

[Pyreneenguy]

That's the way the train appears in the Liverpool-Preston table (148) for summer 1958.

I just checked an earlier ( summer 1950) timetable ( then table 149) and said train arrives Burscough Junction 9.51 am.

 

[Springs Branch]

One other interesting working which used the Burscough South curve in the 1950s (and to at least 1960) was a summer Saturdays Only return train between Stockport Tiviot Dale and Southport Chapel Street.

The 1048 SO from Stockport (T.D) ran via Partington, Warrington Central, Widnes North with stops as far as Hough Green (for Ditton), then non-stop via the CLC North Liverpool Extension and Aintree, crossing to the ex-L&Y line there, then non-stop through Ormskirk and via the Burscough South Curve to Southport Chapel Street (arr. 1248)
Return train left Southport at 1930 SO, following the same route and arriving Tiviot Dale 2119 after setting down at CLC stations along the way.

This was probably a carry-over from the days of the Southport & Cheshire Lines Extension which had through trains between stations on the CLC main line and Southport Lord Street, before it closed north of Aintree Central in 1952.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

On summer Sundays there was a similar service from Manchester Central that ran until 1963.

IF68 left Manchester Central at 9.40 am, arriving at Southport Chapel St at 11.28 am.

I've attached a couple of scans from Stuart Taylors 'Scenes From the Past 26 part 2 Journeys By Excursion Train From East Lancashire'.

First published by Foxline in 1996, this excellent book is now very difficult to find.

With thanks to the author.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Some interesting photos taken at Burscough Junction and Burscough Bridge, notably of the 9.10 Southport-Glasgow in the bay platform at Burscough Junction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/63333186@N02/6211071939/

With thanks to George R969

 

[itsonlyme]

There was a 13:05 Southport to Saltburn on summer Saturdays. This ran via Burscough North Curve, and Lostock Hall to Blackburn where is combined with a similar service from Blackpool (Not sure if North or Central). Similar srevices ran in the opposite direction.

In steam days the early morning newspaper train turned on the Chapel Street / Southport South / St Lukes triangle the stock being left in the sidings and the loco used for the 08:30 Southport Manchester.