Bus itineraries from a train ONLY station

[superalbs]

Just landed in London Heathrow after a near 15hr flight from Tokyo. Not sure if it's the exhaustion talking, or this really doesn't make any sense.

I was sat on the plane, and booked a ticket for my ride home, Heathrow Terminal 5 to Exeter St Davids.

But on closer inspection, the itinerary on the eTicket states the following...

18:31 Great Western Railway
From Heathrow Terminal 5 (Rail Station Only)
To Reading Bus
No specific seat

19:31 Great Western Railway
From Reading
To Exeter St David's
Coach # Seat ###

How have I been sold a ticket from the Rail ONLY station, to ride on a bus?

It seems like this could easily catch out less-savvy travellers than myself, who would quite understandably head to the train station at T5.

Thoughts and discussion welcome!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears you've been sold a ticket on the RailAir bus to Reading then an onward connection. This does operate from outside Terminal 5 (no need to go to the central bus station), though it'd have a job getting into the railway tunnels!

Not sure why it says rail station only.

 

[Adam Williams]

It says "Rail Station Only" because the IDMS station OJPDisplayName for HWV/9846 (which is where the "GWR" RailAir bus calls) is "Heathrow Terminal 5 (Rail Station Only)".

Who did you book this ticket with? I didn't think the station OJPDisplayName field was supposed to end up on E-Tickets in the itinerary section. Page 98 of RSPS3030 specifically says the E0012 "Leg Origin" should be sourced from the "Fare Locations Reference Data" in IDMS, where it is correctly set to "Heathrow Terminal 5".

TrainSplit fulfills it showing as follows:

 

[superalbs]

Update, the ticket was NOT accepted on the bus. Thankfully I argued a bit and didn't pay any extra.

Who best to raise this with?

It says "Rail Station Only" because the IDMS station OJPDisplayName for HWV/9846 (which is where the "GWR" RailAir bus calls) is "Heathrow Terminal 5 (Rail Station Only)".

Who did you book this ticket with? I didn't think the station OJPDisplayName field was supposed to end up on E-Tickets in the itinerary section. Page 98 of RSPS3030 specifically says the E0012 "Leg Origin" should be sourced from the "Fare Locations Reference Data" in IDMS, where it is correctly set to "Heathrow Terminal 5".

TrainSplit fulfills it showing as follows:

View attachment 135727

Booked with TFW for the Avios.

What you've shown there would be unlikely to be accepted as well, as the driver was specifically demanding something that said Railair on it.

Are eTickets even meant to be sold on this route? He was asking for something that says 'Railair', or an 'actual train ticket'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Update, the ticket was NOT accepted on the bus. Thankfully I argued a bit and didn't pay any extra.

Who best to raise this with?

What's the actual e-ticket that was issued? (Obviously obscure the barcode and any other personal information)

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd pick that up with the retailer in first instance, the way that ticket prints is not satisfactory and I can see why a driver might decline it.

 

[superalbs]

What's the actual e-ticket that was issued? (Obviously obscure the barcode and any other personal information)

It's this... (see below)

I'd pick that up with the retailer in first instance, the way that ticket prints is not satisfactory and I can see why a driver might decline it.

Yeah, it's a really weird one. I don't even think it was meant to be sold, it's not routed Railair...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, the retailer. That looks incorrectly issued. For use on RailAir it should be from HEATHROW BUS and be routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG, if I'm getting it right. That ticket should have been issued via the Lizzie changing at Hayes and Harlington and Reading (corrected).

 

[Adam Williams]

I'd pick that up with the retailer in first instance, the way that ticket prints is not satisfactory and I can see why a driver might decline it.

The TOC retailer shouldn't have put the station DisplayName on the ticket, but whoever decided it was a good idea to put "(Rail Station Only)" in the IDMS name for HWV/9846 when it's clearly got timetabled non-rail services calling at it is also at fault here!

 

[superalbs]

The TOC retailer shouldn't have put the station DisplayName on the ticket, but whoever decided it was a good idea to put "(Rail Station Only)" in the IDMS name for HWV/9846 when it's clearly got timetabled non-rail services calling at it is also at fault here!

Out of interest, would Trainsplit issue an AP NOT LONDON ticket on Railair?

I thought that if a journey involves Railair, then it'd have to say it on the ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

The TOC retailer shouldn't have put the station DisplayName on the ticket, but whoever decided it was a good idea to put "(Rail Station Only)" in the IDMS name for HWV/9846 when it's clearly got timetabled non-rail services calling at it is also at fault here!

Yes agreed, hopefully the retailer is in a position to correct that better than the OP though!

 

[superalbs]

Yes, the retailer. That looks incorrectly issued. For use on RailAir it should be from HEATHROW BUS and be routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG, if I'm getting it right. That ticket should have been issued via the Lizzie changing at Hayes and Harlington and Reading (corrected).

That's exactly what I thought, but I couldn't produce any itineraries on that route.

I just typed Heathrow to Exeter, and ended up with this. Even when I'm not looking for them, I find these error tickets.

 

[Adam Williams]

Out of interest, would Trainsplit issue an AP NOT LONDON ticket on Railair?

Dunno about that route/ticket type in particular, but it'll sell an E-Ticket (Advance ticket type code W2O) involving the bus link. Anyone want to expand on why it shouldn't?

 

[superalbs]

I did a few checks, as another (very angry) foreign lady was charged extra.

She bought from Trainline (lol), and had a ticket from Heathrow to Reading (Route NOT LONDON).

I checked trainline myself, and they are selling that exact ticket on the Railair bus, which doesn't seem to be right.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Dunno about that route/ticket type in particular, but it'll sell an E-Ticket (Advance ticket type code W2O) involving the bus link. Anyone want to expand on why it shouldn't?

W2O is available for a few different Heathrow to Exeter flows.

To be valid on RailAir, the ticket needs to be routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG. I guess there's something missing in the data that's allowing the RailAir bus to be ticketed as a train, which doesn't happen for other cases where buses are in the rail data.

Preventing that is why you get that silly message "not valid on Hovertravel" on TVMs when buying Any Permitted routed tickets that go nowhere near the Isle of Wight, if I recall, but there must be a better way

 

[Adam Williams]

To be valid on RailAir, the ticket needs to be routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG

I guess what I'm getting at is, where (electronically) is this restriction specified?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess what I'm getting at is, where is this restriction specified?

It's not a train and not a RRB. The default with any bus link is that a normal train ticket isn't valid on it.

I'm not quite sure how you express that in the data, but when the X5 was in the rail data you couldn't buy an Oxford-Cambridge rail ticket via it, so there must be some means of doing that.

 

[Adam Williams]

It's not a train

It's a timetabled "train" run by GWR

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a train run by GWR

Then it's in the data wrong. It's a coach service operated by First.

Looking at how it comes up, it probably needs a negative easement to be added to the Routeing Guide along the lines of "Journeys from Heathrow rail stations to Reading and beyond are not permitted via READING BUS unless the ticket is routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG", however you implement that. (If you look up the itinerary it shows the coach as running from the Heathrow station to READING BUS, then a walk, then an onward train).

If the coach company is contracted and paid only to accept correctly routed tickets then it can't be forced to accept ones that aren't correctly routed (as it's not a train). However the OP would probably have a claim against the retailer and/or TOC if they had to pay the bus fare, because a contract for travel was established in good faith.

 

[Starmill]

Then it's in the data wrong. It's a coach service operated by First.

While the data is wrong more often than it's right, that isn't an uncommon way to upload a service bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While the data is wrong more often than it's right, that isn't an uncommon way to upload a service bus.

Yes, it shows as a bus with a TOC operating it (the TOC that uploads it), but usually there's also something in there to prevent rail tickets (other than ones with that specific validity) being sold on it, which seems to be missing in this case.

 

[superalbs]

Then it's in the data wrong. It's a coach service operated by First.

Looking at how it comes up, it probably needs a negative easement to be added to the Routeing Guide along the lines of "Journeys from Heathrow rail stations to Reading and beyond are not permitted via READING BUS unless the ticket is routed RAILAIR READING or AP RAILAIR RDG", however you implement that. (If you look up the itinerary it shows the coach as running from the Heathrow station to READING BUS, then a walk, then an onward train).

If the coach company is contracted and paid only to accept correctly routed tickets then it can't be forced to accept ones that aren't correctly routed (as it's not a train). However the OP would probably have a claim against the retailer and/or TOC if they had to pay the bus fare, because a contract for travel was established in good faith.

One does have to wonder how it even came to be. I've never seen this before, and now multiple people are having this issue.

Somebody must have changed something recently!

By the way @Adam Williams, Trainsplit is doing it too...

 

[Adam Williams]

The "sponsoring" TOC should take financial responsibility for this problem, assuming they're the ones responsible for the service appearing in the timetable data (and for the lack of relevant electronic routeing guide data).

It isn't acceptable that passengers are left in the lurch and refused travel due to this nonsense, and it's not the retailer's fault either if they are correctly interpreting the data that they are required to use under their retail license.

In the absence of it being resolved in a timely manner, all of these services should simply be deleted from the timetable data.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, it shows as a bus with a TOC operating it (the TOC that uploads it), but usually there's also something in there to prevent rail tickets (other than ones with that specific validity) being sold on it, which seems to be missing in this case.

For bus links it's usually the case that the origin (or destination as appropriate) is not rail served so there can't be any confusion.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Ah, the joyous promise of integrated transport... we've heard of it...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "sponsoring" TOC should take financial responsibility for this problem, assuming they're the ones responsible for the service appearing in the timetable data (and for the lack of relevant electronic routeing guide data).

It isn't acceptable that passengers are left in the lurch and refused travel due to this nonsense, and it's not the retailer's fault either if they are correctly interpreting the data that they are required to use under their retail license.

In the absence of it being resolved in a timely manner, all of these services should simply be deleted from the timetable data.

I agree, though a negative easement in the Routeing Guide is probably just as quick a fix.

Now it's been called out here, it might be good to watch @kieron's thread and see if one magically appears next week

Ah, the joyous promise of integrated transport... we've heard of it...

There are through fares including Advances, you just have to use the correct routeings.

 

[SargeNpton]

"Heathrow Terminal 5 (Rail Station Only)" is the physical Heathrow Express platform - which is used for the timetable element of any combined fares/timetable enquiry. It should not have any fare associated with it as they are dealt with by the "Heathrow Rail" group location to which all three rail stations within the airport complex are linked.

For RailAir bus connections the group location is ""Heathrow Bus" - which applies to any and all bus stops in the airport.

A third "Heathrow Underground" group location deals with fares to/from the airport via the Piccadilly line.

That on-line journey planner should not have been offering RailAir fares from "Heathrow Terminal 5 (Rail Station Only)", but whether the TIS is at fault or whether there is something wrong in the source data would have to be determined.

 

[SickyNicky]

For RailAir bus connections the group location is ""Heathrow Bus" - which applies to any and all bus stops in the airport.

The timetable data says that it goes from Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 (HWV) and not Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 Bus (HWX). See https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/simple/gb-nr:HWV.

 

[fandroid]

The history is that the Reading Railair bus link has been operating for a very long time indeed. Before Heathrow Express brought mainline rail to Heathrow. The previous rebuild of Reading Station even included a Railair lounge (it's still there). Through tickets were the norm to/from anywhere linked to Reading and there were places to buy those tickets at Heathrow.

I've used it forever but now always buy separate bus and rail tickets because Railcard discounts apply all day on the bus and don't on through tickets from stations within the NSE area. The dreaded m-tickets are available via the First Bus app, but are valid for a year if the buyer's plans change (mine have!).

 

[SargeNpton]

The timetable data says that it goes from Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 (HWV) and not Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 Bus (HWX). See https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/simple/gb-nr:HWV.

Source data error then.