Cambridge Super Off Peak Day Travelcard - Evening Restrictions Clarification

[rhizomergence]

Am wondering whether it is possible to avoid the evening peak restrictions by leaving from Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale.

The restrictions on the ticket are as follows (TN):

Not valid on trains timed to depart any London Terminal after 04:29 and before 10:55.

Not valid on trains timed to depart the following London stations after 16:29 or before 19:02:

• London Kings Cross
• Moorgate
• London St Pancras Intl
• Farringdon
• City Thameslink
• London Blackfriars
• London Bridge
• Elephant & Castle
• London Liverpool Street

Travelcards are valid for use between these times for travel wholly within London Zones 1-6.

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Does this mean that I cannot board a service, say at 17:30 from Finsbury Park, if it originated in Kings Cross and left there after 16:29?

I.e. does the railway expect passengers to “look back in time” to see where a train came from? Since at train stations there’s no easy way to do so for an average passenger.

I guess my question is what does “not valid on trains times to depart” mean? Does it only apply if you are actually departing (joining the service) at that particular station? Or if you remain on the train at that particular station? Or does the fact that a train calls at a particular station invalidate it throughout the entirety of its journey?

(And is there somewhere official in the contract of carriage that I can cite in case I run into any issues, assuming the official meaning is more lenient than expected)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This quirk is one reason why the Oval area WCML Off Peak Singles/Returns have evening restrictions but the Travelcards don't.

By the wording of that restriction you indeed can't. However the electronic restrictions on the ticket cannot implement that "look back in time" and so you can probably buy that Travelcard with an itinerary on the return starting at Finsbury Park. If you do want to do it, this might be the best bet, as then it is contractually valid. Though don't bet on not getting hassle should any RPIs board.

 

[redreni]

This quirk is one reason why the Oval area WCML Off Peak Singles/Returns have evening restrictions but the Travelcards don't.

By the wording of that restriction you indeed can't. However the electronic restrictions on the ticket cannot implement that "look back in time" and so you can probably buy that Travelcard with an itinerary on the return starting at Finsbury Park. If you do want to do it, this might be the best bet, as then it is contractually valid. Though don't bet on not getting hassle should any RPIs board.

Hassle to pay an £8.20 excess fare at worst, surely? Worth a try...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hassle to pay an £8.20 excess fare at worst, surely? Worth a try...

There are plenty of cases, including one ongoing on the Forum at the moment, of RPIs and prosecutions departments who don't think that the entitlement to an on-board excess actually exists, and as such take things forward to a PF or worse a prosecution attempt. It can be a lot of administrative hassle to deal with these.

If you're one of the people who enjoys that, though, go for it!

Edit: I just checked the NRCoT and that is only specifically called out for route excesses (13.2) and banned breaks of journey (16.3). I'm fairly certain time validity excesses used to be in there but it looks like they aren't any more (and I do now recall that being discussed when the change was made) - therefore it would be best not to attempt this other than by way of the contractual validity provided by an itinerary.

Edit edit: found it and it's still there - 9.5:

9.5 Where you:
9.5.1 are using a time-restricted Ticket (such as an “off-peak” or “super-off-peak”
Ticket) that is correctly dated but invalid for the service on which you are
travelling; or
9.5.2 are using a route for which your Ticket is not valid; or
9.5.3 break your journey when you are not permitted to do so;
you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest
price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using.

So it is still the case - but I still wouldn't expect it to go without the need to appeal a PF or worse.

 

[Watershed]

Hassle to pay an £8.20 excess fare at worst, surely? Worth a try...

The excess fare would only be £1.30, as the Off-Peak Day Travelcard is valid. Can't understand why they even bother having (weekday) Super Off-Peak Day tickets when the price differential is so small. Just causes needless confusion and conflict.

But yes, you can get itineraries for these tickets for "evening peak" journeys from the likes of Finsbury Park, since there is nothing in the data restricting departures from those stations.

 

[rhizomergence]

But yes, you can get itineraries for these tickets for "evening peak" journeys from the likes of Finsbury Park, since there is nothing in the data restricting departures from those stations.

I did find these itineraries both on the trainline and on the official National rail website.

I bought the super off peak travelcard from a TVM already (was in a hurry, so didn’t take the time to compare with the marginally more expensive off peak version). If I travel from Finsbury park and then show an itinerary that I screenshotted from National Rail (despite it not being linked to my ticket purchase) would that be acceptable?

The excess fare would only be £1.30, as the Off-Peak Day Travelcard is valid.

Is it possible to excess a travelcard at a ticket office in London? I’ve heard it’s difficult to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I bought the super off peak travelcard from a TVM already (was in a hurry, so didn’t take the time to compare with the marginally more expensive off peak version). If I travel from Finsbury park and then show an itinerary that I screenshotted from National Rail (despite it not being linked to my ticket purchase) would that be acceptable?

It might or might not be accepted, but the problem is it only evidences a contract if you bought the ticket against it.

 

[vinnym70]

Interesting that a similar super off peak on Greater Anglia is subject to restriction D6 which specifically includes return Stratford departures during the evening peak.
Surprised Finsbury Park isn't named in restriction TN as I see it as a similar station to Stratford in this regard.