Caught "doughnutting" - need help

[malakai1997]

Hey all,

First of all thank you for taking time to read my post. It's a tale as old as time.

I recently started commuting into Farringdon from Haywards Heath and thought I could get away with doughnutting - stupid I know. Did this for a month and of course got caught without a ticket midday through this journey at East Croydon.

When the gentleman asked me for a ticket I said I'm gonna be honest I do not have one. He then asked where I got on and I said East Croydon (stupid) and then when he took my details my address is Haywards Heath. He said I'll give you one chance to be honest with me so I was and told him HH.

Since then I have a keysmart card setup for all my journey and will not be doing this again

I have just received a notice of intention to prosecute - I'll attach the files.

This is my first rail offence or any offence. Like everyone here would rather not go to court and get an actual sentence.

Could you all help me draft a response?

 

[Huntergreed]

Hey all,

First of all thank you for taking time to read my post. It's a tale as old as time.

I recently started commuting into Farringdon from Haywards Heath and thought I could get away with doughnutting - stupid I know. Did this for a month and of course got caught without a ticket midday through this journey at East Croydon.

When the gentleman asked me for a ticket I said I'm gonna be honest I do not have one. He then asked where I got on and I said East Croydon (stupid) and then when he took my details my address is Haywards Heath. He said I'll give you one chance to be honest with me so I was and told him HH.

Since then I have a keysmart card setup for all my journey and will not be doing this again

I have just received a notice of intention to prosecute - I'll attach the files.

This is my first rail offence or any offence. Like everyone here would rather not go to court and get an actual sentence.

Could you all help me draft a response?

Welcome to the forum,

It’s clear from your post that you understand your actions were wrong and the seriousness of what you have done.

We need a few more details to fully understand the situation.

Where were you travelling from/to? (You say Haywards Heath to Farringdon but it’s always better to check for clarity)

What tickets have you been buying? Doughnutting is when you buy a short ticket at each end of the journey but miss out the section in the middle, leaving a “hole”. What exact tickets have you been buying?

How many times have you done this before?

How do you normally buy your tickets (online/station?)

It’s imperative you respond to the letter you have received punctually. You should keep in mind the following when you draft your response:

- Apologise for the incident
- State what you have learned
- Assure them it won’t happen again
- Offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and their costs in investigating the matter

Most TOC’s are willing to offer an out of court settlement to individuals who have not come to their attention before. This is not guaranteed, but you significantly increase the likelihood if you draft your letter with the above points in mind and engage constructively with the process.

Once you have a draft, post it on here and we will offer amendments before you send it off to the train company.

 

[Haywain]

This is my first rail offence or any offence.

It wasn't - it was the first time you had been caught.

Could you all help me draft a response?

In your letter you should apologise for not producing a valid ticket but it is important not to further incriminate yourself by spelling out what you have been doing. It is likely that GTR will research your online buying history anyway but you don't have to help them, instead you should be absolutely truthful in answering questions but you are not required to provide more information than has been requested. That you have taken steps to ensure you do pay the correct fare in future is in your favour and is worth mentioning, as this will back up you assuring them it won't be repeated.

 

[malakai1997]

Where were you travelling from/to? (You say Haywards Heath to Farringdon but it’s always better to check for clarity)

How many times have you done this before?

How do you normally buy your tickets (online/station?)

It’s imperative you respond to the letter you have received punctually. You should keep in mind the following when you draft your response:

- Apologise for the incident
- State what you have learned
- Assure them it won’t happen again
- Offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and their costs in investigating the matter

Most TOC’s are willing to offer an out of court settlement to individuals who have not come to their attention before. This is not guaranteed, but you significantly increase the likelihood if you draft your letter with the above points in mind and engage constructively with the process.

Once you have a draft, post it on here and we will offer amendments before you send it off to the train company.

Thank you for your response!

Where were you travelling from/to? (You say Haywards Heath to Farringdon but it’s always better to check for clarity)

- Haywards Heath to Farringdon yep

How many times have you done this before?

- About twice a week, under 10 times

How do you normally buy your tickets (online/station?)
- Trainline app

Do I HAVE to respond by post or is their email? My handwriting is really bad.

 

[Huntergreed]

Thank you for your response!

Where were you travelling from/to? (You say Haywards Heath to Farringdon but it’s always better to check for clarity)

- Haywards Heath to Farringdon yep

How many times have you done this before?

- About twice a week, under 10 times

How do you normally buy your tickets (online/station?)
- Trainline app

It’s possible that, if a settlement is offered, they will look to recoup all of the unpaid fares, not just the one time you were caught.

That said, do not incriminate yourself any further in your response letter. Only refer to the incident stated in their letter.

Do I HAVE to respond by post or is their email? My handwriting is really bad.

Type the letter and print it, and then send this along with their letter as your response.

Start by typing a draft and posting it on here

 

[WesternLancer]

Type the letter and print it, and then send this along with their letter as your response.

Just to add to this - make sure whatever you type and attach has any ref numbers from them included, your postal address / contact details eg e-mail if you want them to use that / full name and is signed by you in pen. Write on the letter they asked you to send back 'please see attached / enclosed response' and also sign that. Keep copies of it all for your own reference as things progress.

Obvious things of course but you need to guard against what you send back getting separated from your case and lost in their office where lots of these things must be processed. Generally make it as easy as possible for the person their end handling your case to process it.

Actively consider posting it back by an appropriate form of tracked post so that you know it has got there and can retain proof of that.

 

[malakai1997]

It’s possible that, if a settlement is offered, they will look to recoup all of the unpaid fares, not just the one time you were caught.

That said, do not incriminate yourself any further in your response letter. Only refer to the incident stated in their letter.

Type the letter and print it, and then send this along with their letter as your response.

Start by typing a draft and posting it on here

Just to add to this - make sure whatever you type and attach has any ref numbers from them included, your postal address / contact details eg e-mail if you want them to use that / full name and is signed by you in pen. Write on the letter they asked you to send back 'please see attached / enclosed response' and also sign that. Keep copies of it all for your own reference as things progress.

Obvious things of course but you need to guard against what you send back getting separated from your case and lost in their office where lots of these things must be processed. Generally make it as easy as possible for the person their end handling your case to process it.

Actively consider posting it back by an appropriate for of tracked post so that you know it has got there and can retain proof of that.

You guys are awesome. Really appreciate the help.

I am going to draft a letter on my lunch and post back then!

It’s possible that, if a settlement is offered, they will look to recoup all of the unpaid fares, not just the one time you were caught.

That said, do not incriminate yourself any further in your response letter. Only refer to the incident stated in their letter.

Type the letter and print it, and then send this along with their letter as your response.

Start by typing a draft and posting it on here

Here is my first draft:

To Whom It May Concern

I am writing in response to the letter sent to me on 11th October 2023. This in relation to the Reference number XXX and event that happened on 18th August 2023.

The facts of this day are that I left for work that morning from Haywards Heath train station to Farringdon.

The barriers were open that day at Haywards Heath so I went straight through. On the train at East Croydon a ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I told him straight away that the truth was I did not have one. He then asked where I was traveling from to which I said East Croydon out of general anxiety and panic of the situation I was in.

He said he would give one last chance to say where I was actually traveling from to which I told him it was Haywards Heath and I had every intention at the end of my journey to buy a ticket from the City Thameslink stop in order for me to open the barriers at Farringdon.

I am incredibly regretful of this situation and I apologize for my actions. I understand that the rail companies rely on these fees to keep and maintain their business which makes it possible for myself and the rest of the country to travel.

This will not happen again and I have since got myself a Key Smart Card so I can tap on and off at stations making sure to pay every fare.

I would like to offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and your costs in investigating the matter.

 

[WesternLancer]

You guys are awesome. Really appreciate the help.

I am going to draft a letter on my lunch and post back then!


Here is my first draft:

To Whom It May Concern

I am writing in response to the letter sent to me on 11th October 2023. This in relation to the Reference number XXX and event that happened on 18th August 2023.

The facts of this day are that I left for work that morning from Haywards Heath train station to Farringdon.

The barriers were open that day at Haywards Heath so I went straight through. On the train at East Croydon a ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I told him straight away that the truth was I did not have one. He then asked where I was traveling from to which I said East Croydon out of general anxiety and panic of the situation I was in.

He said he would give one last chance to say where I was actually traveling from to which I told him it was Haywards Heath and I had every intention at the end of my journey to buy a ticket from the City Thameslink stop in order for me to open the barriers at Farringdon.

I am incredibly regretful of this situation and I apologize for my actions. I understand that the rail companies rely on these fees to keep and maintain their business which makes it possible for myself and the rest of the country to travel.

This will not happen again and I have since got myself a Key Smart Card so I can tap on and off at stations making sure to pay every fare.

I would like to offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and your costs in investigating the matter.

Not bad but I think you maybe need to:

- stress a bit more how apologetic you are, and regretful of your own poor decision not to pay the fare you should have paid
- correct for US spelling errors (apologise s not z )
- style issue, but maybe: Dear Sir / Madam (not - To whom it may concern) and end up with Yours sincerely or Your faithfully
- I tend to think also ending up with the ask of '....as I would be most grateful if you could considering allowing me to settle the matter without the need for court action'
as that makes it clear what you are respectfully asking them.

Style wise you need to think that the cards are all in their hands if they want to prosecute you, which it is important you avoid. Have a think about what it would be like if you worked there and were being asked not to do that, what would make you decide to agree not to prosecute @malakai1997

 

[Haywain]

This will not happen again and I have since got myself a Key Smart Card so I can tap on and off at stations making sure to pay every fare.

If you mean a Key smartcard with KeyGo set up, say so in the letter. It's important to be clear about this.

 

[Huntergreed]

You guys are awesome. Really appreciate the help.

I am going to draft a letter on my lunch and post back then!


Here is my first draft:

To Whom It May Concern

I am writing in response to the letter sent to me on 11th October 2023. This in relation to the the incident with Reference number XXX and event that which happened on 18th August 2023.

The facts of this day are that I left for work that morning from Haywards Heath train station to Farringdon.

The barriers were open that day at Haywards Heath so I went straight through. On the train at East Croydon a ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I told him straight away that the truth was I did not have one. He then asked where I was traveling from to which I said East Croydon out of general anxiety and panic of the situation I was in.

He said he would give one last chance to say where I was actually traveling from to which I told him it was Haywards Heath and I had every intention at the end of my journey to buy a ticket from the City Thameslink stop in order for me to open the barriers at Farringdon.

I am incredibly regretful of this situation and I apologize for my actions. I understand that the rail companies rely on these fees to keep and maintain their business which makes it possible for myself and the rest of the country to travel.

This will not happen again and I have since got myself a Key Smart Card so I can tap on and off at stations making sure to pay every fare.

I would like to offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and your costs in investigating the matter.

I very much agree with the comments of @WesternLancer - the balance is a bit too heavy on facts (they have all the facts) and a little too light on remorse.

I’ve offered some amendments above (I would redact what I have stroked out and add what I have bolded in).

I would also add in a paraphrased version of what @WesternLancer Suggested about asking to settle the matter out of court.

 

[malakai1997]

Not bad but I think you maybe need to:

- stress a bit more how apologetic you are, and regretful of your own poor decision not to pay the fare you should have paid
- correct for US spelling errors (apologise s not z )
- style issue, but maybe: Dear Sir / Madam (not - To whom it may concern) and end up with Yours sincerely or Your faithfully
- I tend to think also ending up with the ask of '....as I would be most grateful if you could considering allowing me to settle the matter without the need for court action'
as that makes it clear what you are respectfully asking them.

Style wise you need to think that the cards are all in their hands if they want to prosecute you, which it is important you avoid. Have a think about what it would be like if you worked there and were being asked not to do that, what would make you decide to agree not to prosecute @malakai1997

Appreciate the response!

- Yeah I can do this, I didn't want to fill a sob story but was looking to keep it professional
- Work for a US based org and this has become a really bad habit!
- Noted on the sir/madam
- Thought an ask might be too cheeky but did consider it so i will change!

Thank you will adjust!

I very much agree with the comments of @WesternLancer - the balance is a bit too heavy on facts (they have all the facts) and a little too light on remorse.

I’ve offered some amendments above (I would redact what I have stroked out and add what I have bolded in).

I would also add in a paraphrased version of what @WesternLancer Suggested about asking to settle the matter out of court.

I appreciate the time put into a response.

Maybe this is me reading things too directly but the letter only asks me for the facts of what happened. Redacting them seems counter intuitive. Of course i'm not the expert here

 

[John R]

Just one other point - you reference fees at one point - should be fares.

 

[Huntergreed]

I appreciate the time put into a response.

Maybe this is me reading things too directly but the letter only asks me for the facts of what happened. Redacting them seems counter intuitive. Of course i'm not the expert here

You could add in a sentence or two to explain the facts, but I wouldn’t retell the whole story. It’s about keeping it concise but constructive.

 

[malakai1997]

Edited version here, feel like a lot of people will think its too long, I am struggliing to makes cuts:

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing in response to the letter sent to me on 11th October 2023. This in relation to the Reference number XXX and event that happened on 18th August 2023.

The facts of this day are that I left for work that morning from Haywards Heath train station to Farringdon.

The barriers were open that day at Haywards Heath so I went straight through. On the train at East Croydon a ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I told him the truth was I did not have one. He then asked where I was traveling from to which I said East Croydon out of general anxiety and panic of the situation I was in.

He said he would give one last chance to say where I was actually traveling from to which I told him it was Haywards Heath and I had every intention at the end of my journey to buy a ticket from the City Thameslink stop in order for me to open the barriers at Farringdon.

I am incredibly regretful of this situation and I apologise for my actions. I understand that the rail companies rely on these fares to keep and maintain their business which makes it possible for myself and the rest of the country to travel.

It was a very poor decision on my behalf to not pay the fine and I have zero excuses for not paying it.

This will not happen again and I have since got myself a Key Smart Card with KeyGo so I can tap on and off at stations making sure to pay every fare as its directly connected to my debit card.

I would like to offer to pay the unpaid fare/fares and your costs in investigating the matter. I would be most grateful if you could consider allowing me to settle the matter without the need for court action.

Yours Sincerely,

 

[WesternLancer]

Good luck with it - just to say I agree with the other helpful suggestions people have added after me!

And also to say if your response does not get the outcome you hope, come back here for more advice as and when you need it. Sometimes people don't get things sorted at the first request, but generally Thameslink / Southern etc do seem to be quite pragmatic with people who engage with them, as you are seeking to do.

 

[Richardr]

Edited version here, feel like a lot of people will think its too long, I am struggliing to makes cuts:


It was a very poor decision on my behalf to not pay the fine and I have zero excuses for not paying it.

If it is not too late, do you mean fare rather than fine in this sentence?

 

[malakai1997]

If it is not too late, do you mean fare rather than fine in this sentence?

Yes I did and not too late! Sending it off at lunch!

 

[malakai1997]

Hello all - wanted to report back.

I managed to get an out of court settlement for £79!!!

Over the moon with that and would not have done it without all you lovely people.

Thank you so much!

 

[Haywain]

Hello all - wanted to report back.

I managed to get an out of court settlement for £79!!!

Over the moon with that and would not have done it without all you lovely people.

Thank you so much!

That's a very good result. Please don't do it again.