Caught train at a different time to ticket

[choochoo123]

Hello,
Today I went from Grateley to London Waterloo with my 6 year old son. I bought the tickets the night before on Trainline as I normally do.

All fine going and caught the train as per the time I had selected. On the return I decided to catch the 30 min earlier train than planned as my son was very tired, we had finished and we just wanted to go home. On the train the ticket inspector came round, I showed him our tickets etc and I was really shocked when he said it isn't a valid ticket and I would have to purchase an entire new return ticket for us both. I was taken completely by surprise and explained the situation, I also knew the train 30 mins later was the same price the day before so didn't think there would be any issue. I have done this before and never had any rail staff say anything about tickets not being valid. I mentioned this to him and he said he'd have people go through all my records to check! He was very rude, with an awful attitude and seemed he was oht to get poeple, as i wasnt the only one that he interogated. I was with my 6 year old so it was stressful and upsetting. I refused to pay for additional tickets and offered to get off at the next stop and we would catch the correct train. He told me he wouldn't allow us to do this and would still issue a fine (I think he said fine, I can't really remember and was in a state of shock so wasn't thinking).

This was a true, genuine mistake on my part, I always pay for my tickets and never fare dodge. I naively thought you could catch any time train as long as it wasn't in peak hours (like when you buy a day return from the station) and as it would have been the same price I can't understand why this would be an issue. After the altercation, I looked at Trainline and saw there is an option to change the time, and that yes, you should travel on the time selected for ticket to be valid. I admit it is an oversight on my part and now I know, I wouldn't do this again.

Now I have calmed down and reflected I am really worried about the repercussions of this and wanted to ask advice on what I can do now before any action is taken?

He didn't actually issue me a fine, so again, no idea how this works and how they would contact me.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Gloster]

Were you given any paperwork? If you were, please post it in this thread with your name, address or any other identifying details, such as reference numbers, obscured.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@choochoo123. Welcome to the forum. What ticket(s) did you have exactly? Where they (booked train) only advance single tickets, which aren't normally valid on anything other than the booked train? Such tickets can be relatively cheap, but they don't offer any flexibility.

Must be a chance you'll receive a letter in the post, in due course, if SWR liaise with Trainline, alleging some Ticket Irregularity. Might end up costing you the Anytime Day Single fare from London Waterloo to Grateley (= £41.90) with a three figure admin fee added on top. Good luck!

 

[swt_passenger]

What seems to happen is Trainline don’t sell you the Offpeak day returns you are expecting, but in your case a set of four “advance” fares for specific trains. I don’t think they make this clear enough.

But did he take your name and address?

 

[choochoo123]

Were you given any paperwork? If you were, please post it in this thread with your name, address or any other identifying details, such as reference numbers, obscured.

No, no paperwork at all. He just scanned the tickets, said his piece, I refused to pay but offered to get off and he said that wouldn't help.

@choochoo123. Welcome to the forum. What ticket(s) did you have exactly? Where they (booked train) only advance single tickets, which aren't normally valid on anything other than the booked train? Such tickets can be relatively cheap, but they don't offer any flexibility.

Must be a chance you'll receive a letter in the post, in due course, if SWR liaise with Trainline, alleging some Ticket Irregularity. Might end up costing you the Anytime Day Single fare from London Waterloo to Grateley (= £41.90) with a three figure admin fee added on top. Good luck!

Hello, thank you for your reply. Yes, looking at them now they say advance single. I think this is quite cheeky of Trainline as this really isn't clear when booking, just assumed it was like a day return. Lesson learned about that now!
I just don't know how they would contact me? Through my billing address?

What seems to happen is Trainline don’t sell you the Offpeak day returns you are expecting, but in your case a set of four “advance” fares for specific trains. I don’t think they make this clear enough.

But did he take your name and address?

No he didn't take my name and address- he didn't ask

What seems to happen is Trainline don’t sell you the Offpeak day returns you are expecting, but in your case a set of four “advance” fares for specific trains. I don’t think they make this clear enough.

But did he take your name and address?

Thanks also for replying. No, it really isn't made clear and I will be much more careful in future. I only use Trainline as it is just easier than buying from the station in the morning, but think I'll probably just stick to that going forward!

 

[methecooldude]

Hello, thank you for your reply. Yes, looking at them now they say advance single. I think this is quite cheeky of Trainline as this really isn't clear when booking, just assumed it was like a day return. Lesson learned about that now!
I just don't know how they would contact me? Through my billing address?

Thanks also for replying. No, it really isn't made clear and I will be much more careful in future. I only use Trainline as it is just easier than buying from the station in the morning, but think I'll probably just stick to that going forward!

What seems to happen is Trainline don’t sell you the Offpeak day returns you are expecting, but in your case a set of four “advance” fares for specific trains. I don’t think they make this clear enough.

But did he take your name and address?

I would argue that it's perfectly clear (at least on the app), it tells you exactly what you are buying and it's validity

 

[Kite159]

And remember in the future if you are buying day returns, splitting at Basingstoke offers a sizeable saving (and in some cases might be cheaper than 2x advance fares, depends if you have a railcard which doesn't discount advance fares)

As for the guard, assuming it was just the guard rather than an RPI, they might have made a note on the e-ticket to pass to the back office to flag it up, or it could have just been a warning.

 

[choochoo123]

And remember in the future if you are buying day returns, splitting at Basingstoke offers a sizeable saving (and in some cases might be cheaper than 2x advance fares, depends if you have a railcard which doesn't discount advance fares)

As for the guard, assuming it was just the guard rather than an RPI, they might have made a note on the e-ticket to pass to the back office to flag it up, or it could have just been a warning.

Thanks this is really helpful.

I have looked back at my Trainline account and I think the reason I made the mistake this time is all my previous purchases have been anytime day returns, not singles. Maybe because I had a child and used a railcard this time, the singles were the cheapest option and I just didn't realise this when booking - I booked late last night without taking much notice, just assumed it was the same as usual!

What is a RPI and how would you tell tbe difference?

I hope it's a warning but he was pretty grumpy so not holding out much hope! I still can't work out what he meant about a penalty if he didn't give me anything or take details?

And remember in the future if you are buying day returns, splitting at Basingstoke offers a sizeable saving (and in some cases might be cheaper than 2x advance fares, depends if you have a railcard which doesn't discount advance fares)

As for the guard, assuming it was just the guard rather than an RPI, they might have made a note on the e-ticket to pass to the back office to flag it up, or it could have just been a warning.

I would argue that it's perfectly clear (at least on the app), it tells you exactly what you are buying and it's validity

You're right! Looking back at all my other tickets they are all anytime or peak returns- I wrongly assumed this would be the case this time- just clicked throught to pay and clearly didn't take much notice unfortunately

 

[Watershed]

Thanks this is really helpful.

I have looked back at my Trainline account and I think the reason I made the mistake this time is all my previous purchases have been anytime day returns, not singles. Maybe because I had a child and used a railcard this time, the singles were the cheapest option and I just didn't realise this when booking - I booked late last night without taking much notice, just assumed it was the same as usual!

Just got the avoidance of doubt, the flexibility to travel on other trains doesn't directly depend on whether you buy singles or returns - it depends on the ticket type.

An Advance ticket is non-flexible and is only valid on the train you select. You can change it before that train departs, but you can't just jump on another train with your Advance.

An Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak ticket is flexible and is valid on any train, subject to the time restrictions associated with the ticket. These restrictions can vary considerably depending on yoyr journey - you'll automatically be offered Off-Peak tickets for trains where they're valid. The ticket will also contain a two-letter code/link which shows the restrictions, for example nre.co.uk/BD.

An Anytime ticket is, as the name suggests, valid at any time.

What is a RPI and how would you tell tbe difference?

RPI = Revenue Protection Inspector. Some companies use slightly different job titles, but they all essentially perform the same role. Their main task is to protect the operator's revenue by issuing Penalty Fares or reporting people for prosecution.

On the other hand, a guard/conductor can only sell a ticket, or report you (or your ticket) to the company's prosecutions department. Most of the time they'll deal with irregularities by selling a ticket, and it sounds like that's what the guard was initially offering to do in your case - so it's unfortunate that you refused to pay, as that would probably have been the end of the matter.

Having refused to pay the fare, you left the guard(?) with no alternative but to drop the matter (unlikely they were inclined to this when you were, in their eyes, "non-cooperative") or report you for prosecution.

I hope it's a warning but he was pretty grumpy so not holding out much hope! I still can't work out what he meant about a penalty if he didn't give me anything or take details?

The prosecution report which he likely sent off will be reviewed by the company's prosecutions team. They will decide how to proceed - in 90% of cases that we see, this is by means of an offer to settle the case out of court for the fare due (usually calculated as the Anytime Single for the journey) plus a fee of approximately £80-120 for their "administration costs".

The latter fee does seem highly excessive to me, and you certainly wouldn't be the first person to question it, but ultimately the alternative will be a criminal prosecution leading, in all likelihood, to a conviction with a fine of several hundred pounds (on top of the train company's costs, the fare due and the Victim Surcharge). So settling is, by far, the cheapest option.

You're right! Looking back at all my other tickets they are all anytime or peak returns- I wrongly assumed this would be the case this time- just clicked throught to pay and clearly didn't take much notice unfortunately

This is something you might decide to submit as a small form of mitigation if it did go to Court, but otherwise the train company will probably not be particularly interested in it. It just means you didn't commit an offence on other occasions, and thus doesn't negate the offence you likely commited on this occasion.

Unfortunately I suppose this likely comes as an expensive lesson in checking the ticket details more carefully - something which I'm sure you're now all too aware of...

 

[John R]

The other lesson to learn is that refusing to buy new tickets if you are in the situation where yours aren’t valid (for whatever reason), is very likely going to turn out more expensive in the long run and result in a more complicated process to (hopefully) avoid prosecution.

 

[AF91]

The other lesson to learn is that refusing to buy new tickets if you are in the situation where yours aren’t valid (for whatever reason), is very likely going to turn out more expensive in the long run and result in a more complicated process to (hopefully) avoid prosecution.

...and saying you've done it multiple times before probably won't help the situation