Temporary Speed Restrictions on the Central, Jubilee and Northern lines

[xtmw]

It's going to be a long weekend for the Central Line

About a dozen TSRs in place, with there already being gaps in the service. It's only going to get worse from here. All down to the TRV being defective so the track hasn't been checked!

 

[Mawkie]

It's going to be a long weekend for the Central Line

About a dozen TSRs in place, with there already being gaps in the service. It's only going to get worse from here. All down to the TRV being defective so the track hasn't been checked!

There are a number of temporary speed restrictions on the Pic for the same reason. Strangely, I did see the TRV out and about this week, but whether it was 'recording' or not I have no idea.

(Is there only one TRV for the whole combine? Or more than one?)

 

[ThameslinkUser]

(Is there only one TRV for the whole combine? Or more than one?)

There is only one, however many trains have something called an Automated Track Monitoring System (ATMS) including S stock and 1972 stock (I'm uncertain as to whether any other fleets have it installed). There was another train in the pipeline to replace the TRV - the Asset Inspection Train - however it was scrapped a couple of years ago.

See some board minutes from 2011.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/Item07-071211-Board-Rail-Underground-Reliability-Improvement-Programme.pdf

Automated Track Monitoring System (ATMS): ATMS is the continuous monitoring of track condition using in-service trains enabling degradation of the track to be measured, automatically identifying any track related defects and allow maintenance activities to be planned to minimise disruption to passengers. A prototype unit has been installed on a District Line passenger train since 2009; 12 service trains will be fitted with the production system, providing up to two service trains on the Bakerloo, Central, Victoria and Sub surface lines by autumn of 2012; providing information to engineers on the current asset condition while the service is in full operation.

 

[xtmw]

All that has been communicated is the TRV has become defective and TSRs have been required because the track hasn't been checked. Although there's currently a 1972 stock sat in Ruislip depot.

There are a number of temporary speed restrictions on the Pic for the same reason. Strangely, I did see the TRV out and about this week, but whether it was 'recording' or not I have no idea.

(Is there only one TRV for the whole combine? Or more than one?)

 

[Nym]

2009TS also has ATMS.
It was proposed for 1992TS then later 1996 and 1973TS. The former was filed as too complicated and the latter was cancelled due to TLL not wanting to cough up the money.

We’re now into multiple digits of years since it was raised that the replacement for the TRV in place of the AIT would be needed. Nice to see progress being made on that lovely critical project…

Also no idea what that board paper is on about, it’s only fitted to 9 trains in the fleet, not 12. There were 12 systems bought but only 9 fitted.
My memory is fuzzy but it should be…
12001, 12003, 4233, 4236, 22099, 22106, 22504, 22506 and 22508.

I stand to be corrected on these numbers, it’s literally from a 10 years old memory(!)

All that has been communicated is the TRV has become defective and TSRs have been required because the track hasn't been checked. Although there's currently a 1972 stock sat in Ruislip depot.

Chances are they’re going to ITMP the 72TS down the Central Line for an ATMS survey.
Always was the backup backup plan, except the several parts of it are now life expired, and err, there’s some missing information and things for central line operation. All the engineers that know this are likely long gone from the company by now though.

 

[xtmw]

There are around 19 TSRs on the entire Central Line now. Not going to be a good day tomorrow.

Part of me wonders how the 72TS can run on the Central Line. Has it been made compatible with the signalling? Running during engineering hours?

 

[Nym]

There is the possibility of piloting it with something else such as the 62 RAT, but that’s rather err, complicated and unlikely to happen.
Chances are it will be an ITMP at “limited” speed. Although ATMS does need to be close to line speed or at least over 6mph

 

[Central]

Saw on another site they’re running the Boxing Day service this weekend,TTN99/24new reduced service starts Monday 26th.

 

[xtmw]

TSRs to continue into tomorrow then... It'll be fun using the line tomorrow

 

[afc75]

TSRs to continue into tomorrow then... It'll be fun using the line tomorrow

How will this affect Central Line Newbury Park to Stratford/Liverpool Street. Given rail replacement again

 

[xtmw]

I believe there are only 1 or 2 TSRs in those areas mentioned. You should be fine to use the line, just leave extra time for your journey

 

[trebor79]

Chances are they’re going to ITMP the 72TS down the Central Line for an ATMS survey.

ITMP?

 

[CarrotPie]

2009TS also has ATMS.
It was proposed for 1992TS then later 1996 and 1973TS. The former was filed as too complicated and the latter was cancelled due to TLL not wanting to cough up the money.

We’re now into multiple digits of years since it was raised that the replacement for the TRV in place of the AIT would be needed. Nice to see progress being made on that lovely critical project…

Also no idea what that board paper is on about, it’s only fitted to 9 trains in the fleet, not 12. There were 12 systems bought but only 9 fitted.
My memory is fuzzy but it should be…
12001, 12003, 4233, 4236, 22099, 22106, 22504, 22506 and 22508.

I stand to be corrected on these numbers, it’s literally from a 10 years old memory(!)


Chances are they’re going to ITMP the 72TS down the Central Line for an ATMS survey.
Always was the backup backup plan, except the several parts of it are now life expired, and err, there’s some missing information and things for central line operation. All the engineers that know this are likely long gone from the company by now though.

ATMS? AIT? ITMP?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

ATMS? AIT?

See post 3.

 

[Nym]

ATMS? AIT? ITMP?

Automatic Track Monitoring System
Asset Inspection Train
Incompatible Train Movement Plan

Also, Tube Lines Limited

 

[bramling]

There are around 19 TSRs on the entire Central Line now. Not going to be a good day tomorrow.

Part of me wonders how the 72TS can run on the Central Line. Has it been made compatible with the signalling? Running during engineering hours?

It’s already run on the Northern Line over the last two weeks. This probably has to be the rolling stock event of the decade for London Underground - I honestly never ever thought we’d ever see a 72 stock on the Northern Line again.

Running it on the Central Line would presumably mean issues with the shoegear. Not sure if that can be worked around or not. We all remember what happened with the CHT 1960 stock…

 

[Nym]

There is a high lift shoegear design for 1972TS, one was done for the MPU (Motive Power Unit) for the TCT (Tunnel Cleaning Train), not sure if this was kept by TMU (Train Mods Unit) when the TCT project was finally killed and the MPU unfortunately de-activated and killed, rather than converted for other uses as we'd proposed, but of course no-one wanted to pay for.

 

[xtmw]

The TRV was seen on the Central but didn't get the data needed !

 

[bakerstreet]

It’s already run on the Northern Line over the last two weeks. This probably has to be the rolling stock event of the decade for London Underground - I honestly never ever thought we’d ever see a 72 stock on the Northern Line again.

Running it on the Central Line would presumably mean issues with the shoegear. Not sure if that can be worked around or not. We all remember what happened with the CHT 1960 stock…

Apologies for off topic but are you saying there is 72 stock actually running in service on the northern? If so do you know when this is next timetabled?

 

[Dstock7080]

Not in service, it was running in engineering hours without passengers.

 

[Snow1964]

The TRV was seen on the Central but didn't get the data needed !

Do you mean it failed to record data, or it got data but showed lots more bits of track that were less than perfect which has massively increased work needed.

 

[CarrotPie]

Do you mean it failed to record data, or it got data but showed lots more bits of track that were less than perfect which has massively increased work needed?

Good question!

 

[xtmw]

Do you mean it failed to record data, or it got data but showed lots more bits of track that were less than perfect which has massively increased work needed.

It failed to record the data.

 

[CarrotPie]

It failed to record the data.

Was it turned on?

 

[xtmw]

The TSRs east of Leytonstone are expected to be removed in the next 2 weeks. Other TSRs in the Stratford era etc will remain in place

 

[xtmw]

TSRs are now going to be put in place on the Jubilee and Northern lines

So that now brings us to 3 lines having TSRs

 

[Nym]

If only they’d have picked up their wallets and purchased ATMS for them lines.
(Automated Track Monitoring System)
Or maybe if LUL/TfL had actually done the mitigation works on the TRV and Pilot Cars

 

[xtmw]

There's been talk of some TSRs being lifted on the Central Line due to the rail grinding works

The TRV has been on test runs to see if it's working or not

 

[JackS]

TSRs are now going to be put in place on the Jubilee and Northern lines

So that now brings us to 3 lines having TSRs

The Northern has had some for a few weeks now

 

[xtmw]

see post below