Chances of a successful appeal

[hocuspocus12]

Hello,

I recently travelled from Egham to Staines for my part-time job. As I was about to get off at Staines, work called and said I was needed in Feltham that day so while the train was still at the station, I tried to purchase a ticket from Staines to Feltham but it took a long time due to dodgy data. As I was about to buy, I realised the ticket could only be collected physically and no e-ticket option so I needed to get off, however it was too late and the train started moving. A few moments later a revenue protection officer came and asked for ticket, I explained my situation was a genuine mistake and either he could let me off with a non-collected ticket or I'll get off at Feltham and comeback to Staines, get out and correctly buy a ticket. I was whining a bit at this point, saying I didn't attempt to fare dodge and this was my first time, but he was being quite intimidating and issued me a penalty fare notice. He also blocked the aisles so I couldn't get out of my seat as we were approaching Feltham while writing up the report on his device.

Given that I had a valid ticket and honestly just narrowly missed the destination with the intention to comeback to Staines, would it be enough for a successful appeal?

Thank you for the advices.

 

[island]

No.

You need a ticket for your full journey, so you would need to have got off at Staines and purchased a ticket before continuing your journey.

I explained my situation was a genuine mistake and either he could let me off with a non-collected ticket or I'll get off at Feltham and comeback to Staines, get out and correctly buy a ticket.

You don’t get to give ticket inspectors the options, they give you the options.

I was whining a bit at this point, saying I didn't attempt to fare dodge and this was my first time

They’ve heard all the excuses before, but if you were given a Penalty Fare that means the inspector accepted you were not attempting to fare dodge but had made a ticketing error. If he thought you were attempting to fare dodge it’s likely he’d have reported you for prosecution.

Given that I had a valid ticket

You didn’t

and honestly just narrowly missed the destination

You travelled beyond the destination on your ticket intentionally, you didn’t “miss” it.

with the intention to comeback to Staines,

The railway has no idea what your intention was or whether you would have paid at Feltham or not

would it be enough for a successful appeal?

No, it’s very unlikely any appeal would be successful – you’ll need to pay up and chalk it up to experience I’m afraid.

 

[AlterEgo]

This has all the hallmarks of classic short faring and I recommend paying the penalty fare promptly before they decide to investigate further. You were fortunate not to be reported for prosecution.

 

[Watershed]

In principle, the requirement is to produce a valid ticket, not just to have paid for one - the argument being that a ticket which hasn't been issued could be refunded. I'm not convinced that this argument really holds up to scrutiny, as you can still get a refund on a ticket after it's been issued, but I suppose that's the line of reasoning which explains why the rules are the way that they are.

You're free to bring an appeal on the basis of having paid for a ticket - but there is no guarantee of success, as it would have to be on the basis that you're arguing this constitutes "compelling reasons" for an appeal being allowed.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the circumstances are likely to have aroused suspicion of "short faring" (buying a ticket for only part of your journey) - Egham to Staines is only one stop (a journey for which it might even be seen as implausible that you want to take the train) whilst it's three stops to Feltham.

Of course, you might be able to dispel any such suspicions if you have call records showing a call being received at the exact moment where the train was at Staines, and could provide witness testimony from your boss/colleague confirming what was said during that call. But that still wouldn't necessarily be judged as constituting "compelling reasons" for allowing an appeal - the expectation being that you should have left the train and waited for the next one.

 

[fandroid]

You could refund it and get the Stockport ticket. Some retailers won't charge an admin fee for the refund.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the circumstances are likely to have aroused suspicion of "short faring" (buying a ticket for only part of your journey) - Egham to Staines is only one stop (a journey which it might even be seen as implausible that you want to take the train) whilst it's three stops to Feltham.

It's 2 miles from Egham to Staines. It's perfectly reasonable to take the train if the alternative is a 40 minute walk along a very busy road

 

[hocuspocus12]

This has all the hallmarks of classic short faring and I recommend paying the penalty fare promptly before they decide to investigate further. You were fortunate not to be reported for prosecution.

I see your point of view but Feltham is literally the next stop from Staines and the price difference is less than 2 quid, short faring is quite pointless.

No.

You need a ticket for your full journey, so you would need to have got off at Staines and purchased a ticket before continuing your journey.


You don’t get to give ticket inspectors the options, they give you the options.

They’ve heard all the excuses before, but if you were given a Penalty Fare that means the inspector accepted you were not attempting to fare dodge but had made a ticketing error. If he thought you were attempting to fare dodge it’s likely he’d have reported you for prosecution.

You didn’t

You travelled beyond the destination on your ticket intentionally, you didn’t “miss” it.

The railway has no idea what your intention was or whether you would have paid at Feltham or not

No, it’s very unlikely any appeal would be successful – you’ll need to pay up and chalk it up to experience I’m afraid

Thanks for the advice, I guess 50 something pound is a lesson to be remembered.

 

[Haywain]

I see your point of view but Feltham is literally the next stop from Staines and the price difference is less than 2 quid, short faring is quite pointless.

How this will look is going to depend very much on whether you then leave a train at Staines.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

It looks as though Feltham has barriers. So, unless there are periods when the barriers at Egham are closed and the ones at Feltham open, attempting short-faring seems daft(er than usual).

The OP may wish to investigate whether the signage at Egham is penalty fare compliant. See elsewhere for details on that, but many if not most applicable stations are missing at least one sign they should have, and one is all you need.

Pay or appeal by the deadline or criminal prosecution could well follow.

Unlucky that the RPI appeared when they did. If they hadn’t, finding the guard and explaining the situation would probably have been sufficient to avoid any problems.

 

[MikeWh]

but Feltham is literally the next stop from Staines

I think the residents of Ashford would disagree.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I recently travelled from Egham to Staines for my part-time job. As I was about to get off at Staines, work called and said I was needed in Feltham that day so while the train was still at the station, I tried to purchase a ticket from Staines to Feltham but it took a long time due to dodgy data. As I was about to buy, I realised the ticket could only be collected physically and no e-ticket option so I needed to get off, however it was too late and the train started moving. A few moments later a revenue protection officer came and asked for ticket, I explained my situation was a genuine mistake and either he could let me off with a non-collected ticket or I'll get off at Feltham and comeback to Staines, get out and correctly buy a ticket. I was whining a bit at this point, saying I didn't attempt to fare dodge and this was my first time, but he was being quite intimidating and issued me a penalty fare notice. He also blocked the aisles so I couldn't get out of my seat as we were approaching Feltham while writing up the report on his device.

Given that I had a valid ticket and honestly just narrowly missed the destination with the intention to comeback to Staines, would it be enough for a successful appeal?

Thank you for the advices.

You could try an appeal (I think there is no potential disadvantage for doing so apart from the time it takes you) but I suspect slim to almost no chance of success for the reasons @island sets out. Harsh as it seems. The arguments you are using for a PF appeal would be the sort of argument you could use (probably with success) to get an out of court settlement if they were threatening you with prosecution. But the cost of such an out of court settlement would be higher than paying the Penalty Fare being asked of you promptly.

Best to ask your work to give you more notice when they want you to change employment locations for the day....

 

[Krokodil]

If you travel beyond the validity of your ticket, then you will be treated as if you have boarded the train at that station without a valid ticket.