Class 158 history

[MatthewRead]

I remember reading a bit about these units but I couldn't get much information about their actual entry into service I know it was in Scotland but when exactly I think they started between Edinburgh and Aberdeen in 1989 before entering service on the Glasgow-Edinburgh main line the following year but when did they start running elsewhere like in Wales?

 

[PHILIPE]

I remember reading a bit about these units but I couldn't get much information about their actual entry into service I know it was in Scotland but when exactly I think they started between Edinburgh and Aberdeen in 1989 before entering service on the Glasgow-Edinburgh main line the following year but when did they start running elsewhere like in Wales?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_158

They started appearing on Western in 1990

 

[dubscottie]

That Wikipedia page is way,way wrong.

ScotRail was the first part of British Rail to introduce the Class 158s to service, gaining a fleet of 46 units which entered squadron service in 1989.

Units (709/711/708) worked the first public service on 17th Sept 1990 on the Edinburgh-Glasgow route.

Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen followed but it was late 1991/early 1992 before Inverness trains went over to 158's as the units for these services were borrowed to work the Newcastle-Liverpool route until it got its own.

The majority of the 40 odd units that had been completed were still on driver training and mileage accumulation runs in late 1990

The first 158 arrived in Cardiff in Oct 1990 for crew training.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I remember reading a bit about these units but I couldn't get much information about their actual entry into service I know it was in Scotland but when exactly I think they started between Edinburgh and Aberdeen in 1989 before entering service on the Glasgow-Edinburgh main line the following year but when did they start running elsewhere like in Wales?

This was Hereford in according to my records 1991, I had travelled down from Shrewsbury on this unit which was working a Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff service (note the rear unit is a 155 which was the norm at that time) that was my first 158 journey in England, first ever was the previous year from Edinburgh to Glasgow.

 

[urpert]

I have a clear memory of seeing one at York in the early 90s (while waiting for a London train with my family) that looked like it was involved in some sort of launch event. My memory suggests there was some sort of fake snow or a smoke machine involved, but then I would only have been about 10 at the time.

I remember being bowled over by how futuristic it looked in the "Express" livery. Still one of my favourites.

 

[Ianno87]

TPE introduction was about 1991, I believe.

 

[dubscottie]

TPE introduction was about 1991, I believe.

20th Jan 1991 if I recall right.

 

[urpert]

20th Jan 1991 if I recall right.

Perhaps it was real snow I was remembering then!

 

[MatthewRead]

That Wikipedia page is way,way wrong.



Units (709/711/708) worked the first public service on 17th Sept 1990 on the Edinburgh-Glasgow route.

Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen followed but it was late 1991/early 1992 before Inverness trains went over to 158's as the units for these services were borrowed to work the Newcastle-Liverpool route until it got its own.

The majority of the 40 odd units that had been completed were still on driver training and mileage accumulation runs in late 1990

The first 158 arrived in Cardiff in Oct 1990 for crew training.

Which was the first line in Wales to get them?

 

[dubscottie]

Which was the first line in Wales to get them?

It looks it was Cardiff-Crewe (via Shrewsbury) & Crewe-Holyhead by Sept 1991. Canton got 3 units (794-796) from Norwich to start the Holyhead runs so presume they already had a few.

Will have a look back at my old "Motive Power" mags from 1991 as they were very detailed.

Was a great Ian Allan publication.

The "first" 158 in the west would have been 158714 which covered most lines in the West/Southwest in late summer 1990 on gauging runs.

 

[fowler9]

I was on the last class 47 operated Trans Pennine service from Manchester to Liverpool. Sadly off the top of my head I can't recall the date or the number of the loco. The next days it was all DMU's. A sad day, not that the 158's aren't good units.

 

[dubscottie]

I was on the last class 47 operated Trans Pennine service from Manchester to Liverpool. Sadly off the top of my head I can't recall the date or the number of the loco. The next days it was all DMU's. A sad day, not that the 158's aren't good units.

My old memory is not gone yet! I said the 20th Jan 1991 when the 158's started.. Just dug out the old mags and it was the 21st! One day out ain't bad after nearly 26 years!

Last 47 run on the 20th was with 47424..

 

[gimmea50anyday]

158s were developed into the networker turbo which was then redesigned as the turbostar units we have today.

 

[dubscottie]

158s were developed into the networker turbo which was then redesigned as the turbostar units we have today.

The Networker was a separate project from the 158. Both were developed at the same time, alongside each other. The 165 turned up later due to York getting more orders for steel stock than it expected in 89/90. (321s and 456)

The Networker was supposed to be the modern Mk1. Same body but many uses (750DC, 25Kv, Diesel, 75-140mph).

Had a good start but never got going unfortunately.

York works was to keep building for NSE routes well into the 2000s with every NSE route having a "Networker" of some shape or form.

Derby was to do all other work.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Suppose it still did with adtranz taking over the design.

 

[dubscottie]

Suppose it still did with adtranz taking over the design.

The Adtranz 170/EMU design has nothing in common with the 158 or York production lines.

The engines/controls might be similar but the 158/9 & Networkers were one solid aluminum body manufactured in the works not the bolt together, bought in crap that is assembled in Derby now.


There is no comparison. If they were the same ABB/Adtranz would have built the 168's using the Minster jigs at York works???

 

[dk1]

I went all the way from Norwich to Edinburgh for the day just to take a ride to Glasgow QS & back on the first week of operation. Seems odd now that I could be that bothered now

 

[Hellfire]

Coincidentally Northern Tweeted a picture of the repainted 158752 yesterday under the caption, We are transforming. Got a few replies pointing out how old the unit actually was, and one complaining the seats were still the same. Obviously this wasn't a complete refurb then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coincidentally Northern Tweeted a picture of the repainted 158752 yesterday under the caption, We are transforming. Got a few replies pointing out how old the unit actually was, and one complaining the seats were still the same. Obviously this wasn't a complete refurb then.

Good. The bluster needs challenging and making to look stupid so they pack it in and start being more honest.

 

[Hellfire]

Good. The bluster needs challenging and making to look stupid so they pack it in and start being more honest.

We long ago gave up expecting new trains in the North, and are used to having to put up with discards from elsewhere so we are not taken in

 

[158722]

My first encounter with a 158 was with 701, which was deployed on testing/crew training from Haymarket to Perth during the first week of February 1990. From memory, 702 & 704 appeared some time (months!) after that, but as others have said, the first handfull started entering traffic from September 1990 onwards - lowered numbered sets from the current ScotRail allocation up to around 158725ish. These were deployed on the E&G, then Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen as more sets became available, replacing 156s which had been brought in temporarily to displace most of the loco-hauled workings on these routes. By summer 1991, they seemed to have taken over most services, along with the Highland mainline. Sets above 725ish seemed to go to Heaton, instead of Haymarket, to allow the Newcastle-Liverpool services to go over to units, more or less as planned in Janaury 1991. As Heaton's own units were delivered, Haymarket sets were eventually sent north. The initial TPE 158 workings were covered by sets in the 15873x/74x/75x range.

 

[MatthewRead]

When did 158's start running to Norwich?

 

[dk1]

When did 158's start running to Norwich?

Around 1989. Remember working opposite & going over to see a unit arrive from Derby filled with sandbags. I think the first passenger working was a lunchtime service to Sheringham using a driver training due to a unit failure. They gradually replaced 156s (& some 1st gen units) on the Anglia-Brum/NW shortly after.

 

[Failed Unit]

Around 1989. Remember working opposite & going over to see a unit arrive from Derby filled with sandbags. I think the first passenger working was a lunchtime service to Sheringham using a driver training due to a unit failure. They gradually replaced 156s (& some 1st gen units) on the Anglia-Brum/NW shortly after.

Makes me feel old now.

I remember them coming over in the early 1990s and the Midlands routes were 3rd in line (after Scotland and TPE North)

Used them to get to Birmingham via Leicester.

The other knock on for Lincolnshire was the end of the 150/1. As the 158s started hitting Norwich, the 156s started taking over the routes such as Grimsby - Newark.

The annoying thing for Lincolnshire was the 158s were very short lived. They started getting introduced on the Lincoln - Derby - Birmingham route, then during in the timetable change the route was split to become Nottingham - Birmingham (which some extended to Cardiff) and Lincoln services got dumped into Coventry. No idea why but we are still suffering from that even now.

When you look at another route in Lincolnshire that got developed around the same time Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport (extended from Sheffield) I am sure with the new decent stock the Lincoln - Birmingham - Cardiff service could have become successful. The issue could have bieng that every other hour the service had to stop at every blade of grass between Lincoln and Nottingham - not really express. Something that BR wouldn't want its flagship train doing.

 

[dk1]

When you look at another route in Lincolnshire that got developed around the same time Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport (extended from Sheffield) I am sure with the new decent stock the Lincoln - Birmingham - Cardiff service could have become successful. The issue could have bieng that every other hour the service had to stop at every blade of grass between Lincoln and Nottingham - not really express. Something that BR wouldn't want its flagship train doing.

Not many routes slap me in the face as much as the Nottingham-Cardiff. It would be a perfect fit for Lincoln, even more so now the stoppers run to Newark. The city really has been poorly served for far too long. Alternate extensions to Grimsby would seem a good fit and some more 170s are coming up for grabs in the next few years. Let's hope it will get looked at again.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Around 1989. Remember working opposite & going over to see a unit arrive from Derby filled with sandbags. I think the first passenger working was a lunchtime service to Sheringham using a driver training due to a unit failure. They gradually replaced 156s (& some 1st gen units) on the Anglia-Brum/NW shortly after.

This sounds about right. This webpage has a short history of the Breckland Line, no specific dates re: the units but Norwich got the 156 fleet first around 1988, and a new timetable direct Norwich - Birmingham and Norwich - Liverpool/Blackpool. The current split between Liverpool and Birmingham routes came later, presumably in preparation for privatisation?

If anyone has any, I'd love to see any Regional Railways timetables for the Norwich routes circa 1988/89.

 

[dk1]

The current split between Liverpool and Birmingham routes came later, presumably in preparation for privatisation?

If anyone has any, I'd love to see any Regional Railways timetables for the Norwich routes circa 1988/89.

The split came about due to the costs involved in crew training in the early 90s. Norwich crews only ever went to Peterborough & this was deemed uneconomic. Regional Railways where rather strapped for cash & chose to only train Cambridge depot on the Leicester-Birmingham route, leaving Norwich to route learn Peterborough-Nottingham via Stamford/Grantham. Over the following years a token service was provided by crew changes but the splitting up of Central Trains put pay to that.

 

[Failed Unit]

This sounds about right. This webpage has a short history of the Breckland Line, no specific dates re: the units but Norwich got the 156 fleet first around 1988, and a new timetable direct Norwich - Birmingham and Norwich - Liverpool/Blackpool. The current split between Liverpool and Birmingham routes came later, presumably in preparation for privatisation?

If anyone has any, I'd love to see any Regional Railways timetables for the Norwich routes circa 1988/89.

I wish I still had it, but when it was first introduced it was a very odd service with Ipswich in the Mix.

When the super sprinters came out you had.

Norwich - Peterborough -Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester - Liverpool
Ipswich or Cambridge - Peterborough - Nottingham - Derby - Sheffeild - Manchester - Blackpool North.
Norwich - Peterborough - Birmingham
Cambridge - Peterborough - Birmingham.

The all interworked together to give Ely - Birmingham & Ely - Manchester and hourly service.

By 1991 - Liverpool - Ely via Grantham was hourly (with Derby only served by Extra's in the peak)
Ely - Birmingham

I think Cambridge / Norwich were still served by both routes.
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Not many routes slap me in the face as much as the Nottingham-Cardiff. It would be a perfect fit for Lincoln, even more so now the stoppers run to Newark. The city really has been poorly served for far too long. Alternate extensions to Grimsby would seem a good fit and some more 170s are coming up for grabs in the next few years. Let's hope it will get looked at again.

It will be interesting to see what happens here.

I am hoping that with East Coast serving the city frequently we will see:

Grimsby Town - Lincoln - Nottingham (hopefully beyond to somewhere more useful than Leicester) limited stop.
Newark Castle - Nottingham picking up the slow
Newark Northgate - Lincoln becoming a self contained shuttle with Grimsby passengers changing at Lincoln for ECML South services.

I digress - I am sure this will be discuss when the EMT prospectus is put out.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Which was the first line in Wales to get them?

May 1991 Cambrian only trouble InterCity had just pulled the Cambrian Coast Express and instead of 5 MK2's we got a 2 car 158.....

 

[43096]

We long ago gave up expecting new trains in the North,

You must have missed all the 185s, 333s, 350s, Voyagers, Pendolinos....

I could also point out that Scotland is north, too, and has had plenty of new trains.