Class 185s at Northern Rail 2016-2019

[wilbur1985]

Hi all,

I have done some looking on Wikipedia and saw northern had used 185's for a short time and then found a picture of one of them and I'm just wondering when they had them and what the point is as it seems a bit illogical.

British Rail Class 185 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Two (originally four) Class 185 units were loaned to Arriva Rail North from April 2016 until May 2019.[47][48]

Will

 

[rg177]

Hi all,

I have done some looking on Wikipedia and saw northern had used 185's for a short time and then found a picture of one of them and I'm just wondering when they had them and what the point is as it seems a bit illogical.

Will

They were used on the former TPE routes, (Manchester to Barrow and Blackpool) for a short while pending delivery of the Class 195 fleet and other fleet cascades (2016 to 2019 IIRC).

Rather than being 'a bit illogical' it was just a continuation of the same stock that'd been used on the routes anyway as a stopgap. As staff will have likely transferred over when the routes moved over to Northern, it was perfectly logical to hire stock that they'd sign already.

 

[Trainman40083]

Do we still have the same situation, with those local trains between Manchester and Leeds via Huddersfield? Thought they were Northern but with 185s.

 

[themiller]

I think that the last train to Barrow from the airport was sent through to Millom rather than swap passengers over to a Northern train which would have involved a trip through the underpass and meant that the connection was never missed. I suppose that the 185 crew were motivated to keep to time as well!

 

[Mollman]

Do we still have the same situation, with those local trains between Manchester and Leeds via Huddersfield? Thought they were Northern but with 185s.

Not this time, Manchester to Huddersfield (and on to York via Wakefield) is TPE. Huddersfield to Leeds is joint Northern and TPE but 185s are only used on TPE's part.

 

[AMD]

As staff will have likely transferred over when the routes moved over to Northern, it was perfectly logical to hire stock that they'd sign already.

Indeed - when the franchises changed in April 2016 (both Northern & TPE), Barrow was moved from the TPE franchise to Northern, and the traincrew here and at Blackpool TUPE'd across to Northern. Even to this day there is an 'exTPE' link at these two depots who still only sign the routes that they signed when they were TPE - and at the time it made sense for the 185s to continue on these routes with the same crew; as Northern didn't have enough trains to cover the timetable - also see the running of 37s on the Cumbrian coast.

 

[driver9000]

Some of the Northern hired 185s were even crewed by Transpennine Drivers and Guards. There were also instances of mixed crews ie TPE Driver and Northern Guard or vice versa.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Indeed - when the franchises changed in April 2016 (both Northern & TPE), Barrow was moved from the TPE franchise to Northern, and the traincrew here and at Blackpool TUPE'd across to Northern. Even to this day there is an 'exTPE' link at these two depots who still only sign the routes that they signed when they were TPE - and at the time it made sense for the 185s to continue on these routes with the same crew; as Northern didn't have enough trains to cover the timetable - also see the running of 37s on the Cumbrian coast.

As I'm sure #AMD is aware but has perhaps not made obvious, Barrow already had a Northern traincrew depot pre-2016, with the service between Barrow and Lancaster split between the two operators.

 

[tfw756rider]

#AMD

@AMD

 

[AMD]

Indeed Barrow had Northern traincrew pre 2016, but the station operator was TPE and had TPE traincrew that worked a large number of services towards Lancaster. In 2016 the station transferred to TPE along with the TPE staff as the route was solely operated by Northern from that point, however the traincrew spilt remains to this day with a blue link and green link at the depot referring to whether the staff are on Northern or TPE Ts&Cs and route card.

 

[SeanG]

I seem to remember that before this when TPE ran the Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere, TPE used 2x156s on the Airport - Blackpools.

There were also instances of TPE using Northern 170s on Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers around 2019 time. Cue many people trying to use Northern Only tickets on these trains and being told they are not valid, which I can see made no sense to Joe Public

 

[Whisky Papa]

@AMD

Noted. Apologies if I've erred elsewhere recently too, but please be assure I had no intention of being too sharp...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I seem to remember that before this when TPE ran the Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere, TPE used 2x156s on the Airport - Blackpools.

There were also instances of TPE using Northern 170s on Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers around 2019 time. Cue many people trying to use Northern Only tickets on these trains and being told they are not valid, which I can see made no sense to Joe Public

The 170 diagram on the stoppers was one of the mitigation measures following the May 2018 debacle. The confusion over Northern Only tickets only really became an issue later on as the Northern 170s went through works and got Northern livery. When they first arrived they were still in debranded ScotRail Saltire colours.