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Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

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Caaardiff

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Wyrleybart said:
As crazy as it sounds (erm not so much) two more class 769 diagrams on the Rhymney line would free up two class 150/2s to cover the North Wales duties. To be fair though, the last time I looked, every single Rhymney line diagram except the 769s was only two cars anyway, rather than the multiples seen when 142s and 143s held sway.
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The 769's aren't reliable enough to commit to more workings. Valleys lines aren't as busy since covid as commuter traffic hasn't returned to same levels. Don't get me wrong, they are needed, especially on event days, but are coping much better than pre-covid.
It's likely the extra services will be canned and 150's will continue to cover as they are. There's no way 2 more 150's could be freed up to run the extra services. The only other option would be to have a single 153 on the additional limited stop services until the 197's come in.
 
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anthony263 said:
Tfw looking to hire two class 150’s from Northern. Tfw should have some relief when the class 197’s finally enter service along with the class 231’s
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It's just so disappointing for the public on that line...years of promises and absolutely nothing delivered in terms of new units.

At least there is an increase in service to be happy about
 
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boby32

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wobman said:
Well the official line off Tfw is that the 230's won't be introduced until later this year now, another delay it seems.
If people don't believe me just ask TFW on social media
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What's the reason for the delay?
 
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wobman

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anthony263 said:
Tfw looking to hire two class 150’s from Northern. Tfw should have some relief when the class 197’s finally enter service along with the class 231’s
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I've heard August at the earliest for 197s, there's been no official reason as to why the 230's aren't arriving again.
Plus they won't give an exact date for the 230s, just some time later this year.

boby32 said:
What's the reason for the delay?
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No official reason but they are still grounded as there is technical problems again with the hybrid system.

Zontar said:
It's just so disappointing for the public on that line...years of promises and absolutely nothing delivered in terms of new units.

At least there is an increase in service to be happy about
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The increases in services is dependent on the 230's introduction, tfw require 3x 230's in service to run the extra services.
With the 230's not being introduced tfw will require other units to cover the Wrexham-Bidston’s, it's been mentioned on here by other posters the tfw a hiring in 2x150s from Northern.

The extra Wrexham-Bidston fast service as promised in the franchise are dependent on a ORR decision as there's a conflict with the new freight services from Pennyfford.
 
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TheSel said:
There's supposed to be an early (0554, from memory) Bidston to Wrexham that comes off Birkenhead North shed. Don't suppose that'll happen, but shown in timetables.
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Might be if that northern unit makes it over, otherwise it's buses
 
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boby32

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Since there is a delay for the class 230, A class 197 could run on the Borderlands line (see post #991).
 
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Caaardiff

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boby32 said:
Since there is a delay for the class 230, A class 197 could run on the Borderlands line (see post #991).
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197s aren't ready to be put into service yet. Eventually they will take over from the 150s which were planned to run alongside the 230s with the increased services from this month. 4 units would be required.
That is now likely not going to happen so IF the Northern 150s arrive I can see them working the current 150 diagrams, the service will remain hourly and the additional services reviewed.
 
D365

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Xenophon PCDGS said:
Laughingly behind my hand, can I dare ask if Vivarail also have a hidden store of old buses that they have played with in secret and will use as rail-replacements for their "iconic" rail units....:lol:
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I’m still unsure as to why you fundamentally take issue with the reuse of D Stock trains. The Isle of Wight trains are evidence that the concept is sound - and I await with interest to see how other diesel-hybrid rolling stock conversions progress.
 
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D365 said:
I’m still unsure as to why you fundamentally take issue with the reuse of D Stock trains. The Isle of Wight trains are evidence that the concept is sound - and I await with interest to see how other diesel-hybrid rolling stock conversions progress.
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Isle of Wight have a third rail which changes the concept completely.
 
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D365 said:
I’m still unsure as to why you fundamentally take issue with the reuse of D Stock trains. The Isle of Wight trains are evidence that the concept is sound - and I await with interest to see how other diesel-hybrid rolling stock conversions progress.
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Exactly 10 x 484 vehicles alongside an order of
3 car 230001
2 car 230002
2 car 230003-005
3 car 230006-010

Total 26 vehicles of which 230002 has left for the USA.

The fifteen TfW vehicles appear to have serious issues preventing their entry into service - particularly as they were all driven out the gates at Long Marston and delivered under their own power to TfW. What has gone wrong since ?

If you cannot get a two car D78 to work after it has had millions lavished on it, and a majorly renewed railway to run it on on the I of W then it really would be a poor tool. And that is the nub of it. These D78s should at least be running the coast line from Ashford through Hastings, but it obviously isn't just this forum which takes exception.
 
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Speed43125 said:
230011 is extant and with 002 in Pennsylvania.
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230011 is a new one for me. Is that part of the TfW order, or a different batch, for whom / where, and which D78 cars were used? Or perhaps it's a typo, and you really meant 230001? Thanks
 
Dstock7080

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Roger B said:
230011 is a new one for me. Is that part of the TfW order, or a different batch, for whom / where, and which D78 cars were used? Or perhaps it's a typo, and you really meant 230001? Thanks
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Not a typo
230.011 is another battery train for Pennsylvania to run with 230.002 demonstrating longer trains.
 
D365

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Wyrleybart said:
The fifteen TfW vehicles appear to have serious issues preventing their entry into service - particularly as they were all driven out the gates at Long Marston and delivered under their own power to TfW. What has gone wrong since ?
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The multitude of technical and staffing issues plaguing the TfW fleets isn’t a good poster for Vivarail’s battery technologies. But when looking at hybrid conversions specifically, I only see Porterbrook doing similar.

Anyway, it was long before the TfW order was placed that Mr S declared his antipathy for the work that Vivarail are doing in converting ex-London Underground rolling stock for mainline application. Which is what I continue to question, especially given his non-issue with the 769s that are now (somewhat) operational.
 
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D365 said:
The multitude of technical and staffing issues plaguing the TfW fleets isn’t a good poster for Vivarail’s battery technologies. But when looking at hybrid conversions specifically, I only see Porterbrook doing similar.

Anyway, it was long before the TfW order was placed that Mr S declared his antipathy for the work that Vivarail are doing in converting ex-London Underground rolling stock for mainline application. Which is what I continue to question, especially given his non-issue with the 769s that are now (somewhat) operational.
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I agree with the multitude of staffing part having been on them and knowing how much they misbehave.
Tfw have had 3 DIs and 2 CIs seconded for a few years to the 230's for training and testing.
The units are never reliable enough to complete a week of training, so most drivers take 2 weeks to train up. Then there's been the more serious reliability issues that have grounded the fleet time after time again.
About a quarter of Chester depots drivers are now trained up on them, which is shocking considering the time they have been with tfw. Of the drivers trained they have all had refreshers on them, some more than once.
 
Xenophon PCDGS

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D365 said:
Anyway, it was long before the TfW order was placed that Mr S declared his antipathy for the work that Vivarail are doing in converting ex-London Underground rolling stock for mainline application. Which is what I continue to question, especially given his non-issue with the 769s that are now (somewhat) operational.
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Being the Mr S referred to above, if you look at what has actually occurred with the Vivarail conversion project, the doubts that I first expressed quite some years ago do seem to have been proved. How long ago was it when Vivarail were granted a 12-month contract to operate the diesel traction mode version on the Coventry to Nuneaton line that was supposed to be so easy into exchanging the traction units on hard standing by the lineside with a fork lift truck. That contract was terminated as a result of the fire that so occurred in a unit. Then look at the performance of the Vivarail units on the Marston Vale line.

With regards to the Class 769 units you mention, I have used these units on a number of occasions without finding fault either with the reliability or the journey mode on any of them.
 
berneyarms

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That's a late change to the timetable pdf - it was in the one that I downloaded five days ago.
 
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Dstock7080 said:
Not a typo
230.011 is another battery train for Pennsylvania to run with 230.002 demonstrating longer trains.
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Thanks Dstock7080 - I wasn't aware of that.

With introduction into service postponed again, what are the current locations of 230006 to 230010?

Many thanks
 
Peter Mugridge

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Roger B said:
Thanks Dstock7080 - I wasn't aware of that.

With introduction into service postponed again, what are the current locations of 230006 to 230010?

Many thanks
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On Thursday last week, 230 008 was at Crewe in the LNWR shed. I doubt it will have moved since then.
 
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