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Class 304's

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RichmondCommu

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G'day everyone,

Back in the late 1970's / early 1980's my mates and I would often travel out to Bescot from Birmingham NS looking for 'cops'. I seem to remember that these units had no corrider connections i.e. compartment only and that they also had Gresley bogies fitted.

If anyone could confirm this I would be very grateful.

Many thanks,

Richmond Commuter.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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You remember correctly; they were not fitted with corridors and they did indeed have Gresley bogies. They weren't all compartments though, within the vehicles they were open except for a comparttment or two immediately behind the cabs.
 

Polarbear

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I seem to recall that some 304's had compartments in one of the trailers. Certainly, the 1st class area was arranged in a compartment style?

This may have been when they were four car units, but I think all 304's were reduced to 3 car units (2nd class only) by the early 1980's.

and they did indeed have Gresley bogies

And a ride to match...!!:o
 

RichmondCommu

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You remember correctly; they were not fitted with corridors and they did indeed have Gresley bogies. They weren't all compartments though, within the vehicles they were open except for a comparttment or two immediately behind the cabs.

Ahh, cheers Peter very much appreciated! Any ideas as to why these units were fitted with Gresley bogies? The lack of corridors never made sense to me in terms of revenue collection.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I seem to recall that some 304's had compartments in one of the trailers. Certainly, the 1st class area was arranged in a compartment style?

This may have been when they were four car units, but I think all 304's were reduced to 3 car units (2nd class only) by the early 1980's.

Many thanks for your post. I'm curious to know why the 304's were reduced to three car units in the 1980's?
 

theblackwatch

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I'm pretty sure it was due to cost cutting by the railways that was prevalent at the time - many DMU sets also lost their centre cars in the early 1980s as well, when there seemed to be a '3 into 2' attitude.
 

David Goddard

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It might have been because of shorter platforms on the Cross City line, meaning that while 1x4 car would be fine, eight cars is too long. Therefore using three car trains (as the DMUs they replaced were) enables 3 or six car trains to run as the 323s do now.
 
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RichmondCommu

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I might have been because of shorter platforms on the Cross City line, meaning that while 1x4 car would be fine, eight cars is too long. Therefore using three car trains (as the DMUs they replaced were) enables 3 or six car trains to run as the 323s do now.

However, it seems as though the units were shortened sometime before the Cross City electification in which case this doesn't really make much sense.
 

Bevan Price

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The original formation of units (304) 001 - 015 was
DTBSO - TCL* - MBS - DTSOL
(* - individual compartments, but, as built, 1st class area of TCL had an internal gangway to access the toilet. A similar arrangement was found in some loco-hauled non-corridor stock.)
In units (304) 016 - 045, the MBS was replaced by a MBSO; in units 001-015 this coach was later converted to MBSO layout (sorry, don't know the date).
 

Genocide

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The middle cars on the AM4s were removed on the pretext of security and performance.

I suspect it was more a question of releasing bogies.

If anyone on here remembers Dong, and can find him - he'd tell you. A solid fixture in the MBS of 034, usually silent but if you got him talking he was an encylopedia of gen.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I seem to recall that some 304's had compartments in one of the trailers. Certainly, the 1st class area was arranged in a compartment style?

The first class section had a corridor connection to a WC, which was very useful. We used to sit three facing three on our commute in much comfort and treated our compartment as a "club coach" that the magnates of the past used.
 

Taunton

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The first 15 001-015 were built theoretically for the Manchester-Wilmslow-Crewe scheme.

The next 20 016-035 were theoretically for the Liverpool-Crewe scheme. However, as only three were needed daily for this service, this was obviously inaccurate, and the bulk operated from Manchester, where 15 units were not enough.

The last 10 036-045 were for the Manchester-Stoke-Birmingham scheme, although completed well before the wiring was done. Again, they generally operated from Manchester.

The 45 units overall, however, did pretty much cover all the local services north of Birmingham, including the later incorporation of the Altrincham line. When the electrification was extended to the north in 1973 they did a once daily service from Crewe to Preston, operating via Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows, about the only electric service to do so.

The equivalent 305/308 units operating out of Liverpool Street did have a proper refurbishment in 1980, with new bogies (actually secondhand), properly draughtproofed doors, new interiors and in-unit corridor connections. They were actually quite nice, and in many respects better than new vehicles of the period. They certainly had seats far better than were being installed in 313s/507s of the period of their installation, plus they of course properly lined up with the windows. I understood the difference with the 304s was due to different standards of asbestos insulation in the different builds, and that the stock reductions of the time, most easily done by eliminating middle trailers, were also due to economising in asbestos treatment - it wasn't necessarily stripped, but in many was fully sealed in. This gave various difficulties where such vehicles were subsequently involved in accidents with the bodywork ripped open.
 
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eastwestdivide

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They also worked to Rugby on the Trent Valley stopping services (Nuneaton/Atherstone etc), but at least in the late 70s/early 80s they were pretty rare further south (Bletchley/Euston), where the Class 310 units held sway.
 
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